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Eunectesboy 2009-03-29 09:38 PM

WTF??? Do you really build 'sound' homes this way
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We managed to walk around our 'new Sundial house' the other day in preparation of moving in this summer and couldn't help but notice that in at least 12+ places they used 2x4 studs for framing that had almost been 90% cut through prior to use/placement in the framing.

Now just to give you some idea of what I am talking about...we walked around the place and noticed quite quickly on the second floor that at least 12+ studs that were used had been almost 90% cut through and then (regardless of the fact they had been circular sawed almost completely in two) used anyway. And to make matters worse (better?) they decided (in their infinite wisdom) to use 2x2 studs to "support" the faulty 2x4 studs by 'bracing' the crappy 2x4's with 2x2's screwed into the sides.

Now here is my question...

If you cut a 2x4 stud/beam almost 90% of the way through (thus, arguably, compromising the structural integrity of the stud) and are sitting there contemplating what to do to correct the you (as an ethical/honest/skilled business person)...

A) replace the stud entirely with a new beam/stud of wood...because after all this is $450K+ house and it pretty much calls for it...or

B) do you decide to leave the almost fully shorn/cut studs intact with only some 2x2 beams that you uncerimoniously screwed in to try and support the structural poor studs used?



You be the judge.

Look at the pic's attached...and decide if they should have left these studs in at all. They were somehow cut and almost 90% split and the rocket scientists at Sundial decided to use them anyway so long as they supported them with 2x2 'splints'.

Not to mention that the wood seems to be crap anyway...and the bottom of some beams are already split in addition to the 'newly splinted' studs.

I mean...really...


For a $450+K's 'bout you use a new piece of wood????

GregS 2009-03-29 11:15 PM

Umm, just so you know.. This is common practice to straighten out warped/bowed lumber. As lumber dries out it starts to twist and bow.

I see this done on everything from the $200K townhouses to the $4M mansions, regardless of builder.

This is not an issue and it is good of them to do. It's so your drywall doesn't end up all wavey.

VolgaOwner 2009-03-29 11:59 PM

I think what the problem is that the wood is almost completely cut through (zoom in on the pic and you can see), not that it is warped or bowed. Does anyone know if this is really ok? If the crack is floor to ceiling, and it's only pinned in the centre (say, 4' up the board) does it really "fit" the problem?

GregS 2009-03-30 12:41 AM

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If this were a load bearing wall then it would be an issue. However, it does not appear to be. All it's going to do is hold up drywall.

Again, this is common practice and I have seen it done with many builders.

If you have some serious concerns, please consult your builder directly.

See attached a couple of examples from pictures I have taken for jobs that I have worked on.

Eunectesboy 2009-03-30 12:43 AM

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Thanks for the feedback Greg...but I think I am trying to convey a concern that is beyond something that is your normal warped stud.

Look at the first picture I posted and now look at the one I just posted (again) issue is not with warped wood that needs to be reinforced...the issue is the fact that some 'brain child' has apparently erroneously cut about 90% of the way through numerous studs and decided (in at least 12+ cases throughout our house) to still use 'said' f'd up studs and bang those son of a guns up like it offers any real support at all.

I am not talking about a 'warped' stud or something that is a tad bit 'curved'..if you look at the pic... I am saying that Sundial has (or better yet one of their quality contractors) decided that a piece of wood that they have accidentally almost entirely cut through is now (in about 12+ cases throughout the house) ok to use..and I seriously question the ability of these 'compromised' studs to hold any significant weight etc...

Look at the pics...this is not warped wood...these are studs that somebody has almost entirely severed and they have decided to use all the same...and I question how 'sound' these really are....

GregS 2009-03-30 08:26 AM

I am just trying to convey my experience with working in new home construction the last 5+ years.

They do not go around accidentally cutting through the wood.

The wood was bowed. The method employed is common to fix it so it does not bow out and the drywall can be placed flat.

This does not appear to be a load bearing wall. It's just going to hold up drywall.

If you have some serious concerns, please consult your builder directly.

VolgaOwner 2009-03-30 08:44 AM

I'm quite interested in this thread... I understand what you are saying Greg, but in Eunectesboy's case, it looks like it's actually cut, not warped. The dark line coming down on an angle is a saw line, and there is a huge crack right beside that. I get that supporting a bowing piece is ok, but that's not the case here. It almost looks like they were cutting it to use that wood for the sides of a staircase. I guess a call to the builder is in order...? Hopefully it is not load bearing and all will be good!

MrsMad, how did the builder answer your questions? Did they say it was ok to do that?

Thanks again to all for the feedback!

John & Tracy 2009-03-30 09:09 AM

At the risk of stepping on some toes, I don't think you're following what Greg is saying.

When the studs warp, the most common way to fix the problem is to cut the stud on an angle like that, pull it back in line so it won't warp your drywall, and the brace it on the side to keep it in line.

You studs were not cut when they were put up. The were installed, they were warped, and then they cut and fixed the problem. Wood is a natural product and can't be guranteed to remain staright as it dries. There is nothing wrong with this - would you prefer a solid stud and a bowed wall?

Again, if theis is not a load-bearing wall then there is absolutely no problem here. You should feel good knowing that someone took the time to ensure you'll have relatively straight walls.

GregS 2009-03-30 09:13 AM

Maybe I missed a step in my explanation..

1) Identify wood that is bowed out or in.

2) Make a diagonal cut from the top of the bow down.

3) Push the wood against the bow, reversing the bow. The kerf of the cut will allow at least a 1/16" of play. This straightens the wood out.

4) Secure the stud with a piece of strapping so it cannot bow back out again.

5) Enjoy hanging drywall.

oakvillehomeowner 2009-03-30 02:29 PM

my fernbrook home had some interior walls done the same way - they do this so that you don't get wavy walls. i didn't like it, but it seems sturdy after drywall was nailed on both sides. the cuts in mine were identical to yours - almost all the way through - if they don't go that far, then they don't shift when they're compressed.

on the exterior load bearing walls, they would shave down the 2x6 or use 2x2 strapping to build it out - no saw cuts on the structural walls.

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