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  #1  
Old 2008-07-27, 03:03 AM
prb prb is offline
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Default Tankless Water Heaters

Has anyone done this?

We're considering it for an old house, the current tank is an electric tank being rented from Enersource for $15 per month. We plan on getting rid of it.

Considering that the high-efficiency gas furnance vents out the side of the house, and the old owners blocked off the chimney, we need something that can vent out of the side of the house.

So, Powervent 50 gallon gas tank at $20.03 per month, plus installation (I sort of pissed off a direct energy sales rep, so they'll probably charge for that) vs. Bosch Tankless 6.4 GPM at $1498 + install vs. Paloma Tankless 7.4 GPM at $1379 + install.

I have a friend who is a gas fitter, so the install is pretty much taken care of.

Has anyone done a tankless, and if you have should we go with a 6.4 or 7.4 GPM? It's in a house, but it's going to be used as an office probably, so we won't use a lot of hot water (hence my reason for going tankless - why pay to heat 50 gallons of water that you don't use), but it may be used as a residence in the future. 2 bathrooms (one shower), 1 kitchen with dishwasher, so I think the 6.4 GPM would work, but the 7.4 GPM is cheaper and has a better warranty, but BOSCH is a name that people like...
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Old 2008-07-27, 10:06 AM
ancodia ancodia is offline
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I may be wrong but with tankless they are either on or off, you can't have a slow stream of hot water, they turn on when a certain water flow level is achieved. Hot water will be wasted simply because you need to turn the tap on high to get hot water.

And I saw a good article once where they debated the real savings on tankless. Sure, in a traditional water heater some heat loss will occur, but where does it go? Into your house! So excluding the summertime, where is the heat loss wasted? And even then the amounts of $ we are talking is so small it doesnt justify the added expense of tankless.
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Old 2008-07-27, 01:52 PM
prb prb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancodia View Post
And I saw a good article once where they debated the real savings on tankless. Sure, in a traditional water heater some heat loss will occur, but where does it go? Into your house! So excluding the summertime, where is the heat loss wasted? And even then the amounts of $ we are talking is so small it doesnt justify the added expense of tankless.
Heat loss would go into the house, but into the basement, specifically wherever the water tank is located, which is typically somewhere that is not used as a living space. Why pay to heat that area when you don't need to?

And in my situation, the house may be used as an office. Why pay to heat 50 gallons if you use less than 5 per day?
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Old 2008-07-27, 01:52 PM
patrob patrob is offline
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Do a search, it has been discussed before. We have a tankless & love it & I do see a difference on my monthly bills.
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Old 2008-07-27, 09:18 PM
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I think we're going to go Tankless

Cost of Unit over 5 Years
Powervent 50 Gallon Tank
Rental Fee: $20.03 per month x 60 months = $1,201.80
Vent Install Fee: $212
Installation (running gas line): ~$200
5 Year Cost of Unit: $1, 513.80

7.4 GPM Tankless - Paloma made in Japan
Unit Cost: $1,379
Vent Install (kit from Home Depot): $379
Installation (running gas line): ~$100 + case of beer (friend is a gas fitter)
Government ecoEnergy Rebate: $400
5 Year Cost of Unit: $1,458

So even without any energy savings, tankless is cheaper than renting. :P
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Old 2008-07-27, 10:10 PM
ancodia ancodia is offline
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I see the paloma's require about .5 gpm to fire-up. A bathroom faucet runs a 1.5 gpm, or .75 gpm per hot/cold, so you'd have to run the tap almost full to get warm water. Plus if you have a thermostatic valve attached I wonder if that would cause problems hitting the min. gpm requirement.
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Old 2008-07-27, 10:56 PM
patrob patrob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prb View Post
I think we're going to go Tankless

Cost of Unit over 5 Years
Powervent 50 Gallon Tank
Rental Fee: $20.03 per month x 60 months = $1,201.80
Vent Install Fee: $212
Installation (running gas line): ~$200
5 Year Cost of Unit: $1, 513.80

7.4 GPM Tankless - Paloma made in Japan
Unit Cost: $1,379
Vent Install (kit from Home Depot): $379
Installation (running gas line): ~$100 + case of beer (friend is a gas fitter)
Government ecoEnergy Rebate: $400
5 Year Cost of Unit: $1,458

So even without any energy savings, tankless is cheaper than renting. :P
Why would you be buying the vent kit for Paloma at Home Depot Are you sure it will fit? Just buy it from the same place you will get your tankless from. I am also not sure about the eco energy rebate? It's mainly for retrofit not new houses & you need to do the assessment & pay for it before you can get any rebates, that's what I was told.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ancodia View Post
I see the paloma's require about .5 gpm to fire-up. A bathroom faucet runs a 1.5 gpm, or .75 gpm per hot/cold, so you'd have to run the tap almost full to get warm water. Plus if you have a thermostatic valve attached I wonder if that would cause problems hitting the min. gpm requirement.
We have no problems with our faucets. Yes you have to have them open almost full but it's no big deal.
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Old 2008-07-27, 11:25 PM
prb prb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrob View Post
Why would you be buying the vent kit for Paloma at Home Depot Are you sure it will fit? Just buy it from the same place you will get your tankless from. I am also not sure about the eco energy rebate? It's mainly for retrofit not new houses & you need to do the assessment & pay for it before you can get any rebates, that's what I was told.
Home Depot is where we would be buying the tankless from. I have a friend would be installing it. The house was built over 40 years ago, so it's definitely not new
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  #9  
Old 2008-07-28, 12:57 AM
patrob patrob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prb View Post
Home Depot is where we would be buying the tankless from. I have a friend would be installing it. The house was built over 40 years ago, so it's definitely not new
I just figured since you're on this forum, it was for a new house

Check out these guys for Paloma (Waiwela) tankless heaters, that's where we bought ours. http://www.tanklesswaterheaters.ca/residential.html

They will give you all the info you need to make a wise decision.
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  #10  
Old 2008-07-28, 12:14 PM
ElectricMayhem ElectricMayhem is offline
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Given that you have the money up front, I think the comparison you should be doing is between buying tankless and buying tankful. I think you'll find that tankful is cheaper. Also, in a small office application you're not going to use enough water to break even on a tankless. The standby loss from a well insulated tank is pretty small (about 30-40 W) and the amount of gas you need to burn for this is concomitantly small.

Tankless is certainly trendy and you'll get some brownie points from tree huggers, but from what I've seen the engineering analysis does not support a meaningful economic gain for applications like yours.
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