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Basement Finishing and Renovations Has it been 2 years already? Time to work on finishing the basement into some extra living space.


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  #21  
Old 2014-12-05, 02:59 PM
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Mpac does not calculate taxes. That is based on assessed value x mill rate set by the city.
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  #22  
Old 2014-12-05, 04:12 PM
WellThatsLovely WellThatsLovely is offline
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Originally Posted by oakvillehomeowner View Post
BULL.

There are very few elderly people in Toronto paying over $12K/year in property taxes. Because Toronto tax rates are much lower than surrounding areas, only those people who are living in a home that was assessed at over $1.65 Million in 2012 are paying $12K/yr. When you consider that MPAC assessments are typically 20% or more below resale value, as a result, the only elderly people freezing to death due to property taxes over $12K/yr are doing it in a house they could sell for $2 Million. I'm not feeling too bad for them...

http://wx.toronto.ca/inter/fin/tax.n...OpenForm&Seq=1
I live on a street full of them, I didn't just invent that theory to win an argument on the internet.... Who do you think owns all those busted houses that sell for 200% of asking? No one here is finishing their basements and renting them out, the houses are 100 years old and the basements are uninhabitable, they're trying to make their homes livable that are rotting on the inside and falling down on them because they're a century old. Their children have grown up here and moved away, so arguably, they should be paying less taxes than they were before. People here paid $15k-$25k in the 50's and 60's (as far back as I could get info) and they're now paying property taxes on homes assessed way over $1.5m. It isn't their fault that other people are too stupid to realize what's happening with the housing market. Why should they be forced out of their homes that they've lived in all their lives? I know no one feels sorry for anyone who's technically worth millions on paper but when more and more people start seeing it happen to their own parents, their opinions might change.
...and a sidenote, if all these old people started just moving away and selling all at once as suggested, their homes would be worthless because of Ontario's demented age distribution.
It's a little disgusting that a country that's made of oil, diamond, gold, water and lumber is treating its elderly this way.
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  #23  
Old 2014-12-05, 08:57 PM
BartBandy BartBandy is online now
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Originally Posted by Halton Home Inspector View Post
Like I said, IMO the price increase should be minimal, and yes, I think there are lots of people who would go with permits if they knew what the costs were up front.
The current MPAC "mystery system" is a failure.
I agree 100%.
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  #24  
Old 2014-12-06, 11:37 AM
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Lets see if some of the mystery can be removed.

Mpac info related to new homes and renovations/ additions is here: http://www.mpac.ca/property_owners/NewlyBuiltHomes.asp

Tax implications for a finished basement is
Value of renovation x your tax rate.
Prorated in first year based on completion date.

So $40,000 renovation with .01200 tax rate is $480 x 6/12 if finished in july first year is $240

Using your last tax bill and assessment notice you can get quite precise - for example a small reduction based on 2012 value.

Your local building folks should be able to provide per sq ft estimates of the value. If you do most of the work yourself, that value will be higher than actual costs.
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  #25  
Old 2014-12-08, 12:48 PM
oakvillehomeowner oakvillehomeowner is offline
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Originally Posted by WellThatsLovely View Post
Their children have grown up here and moved away, so arguably, they should be paying less taxes than they were before.
that goes back to the basis of taxation. should we tax by headcount? my street has one house with 13 family members in it beside an equivalent valued house with 2 people living in it. how can you accurately and efficiently measure that? should we tax by consumption? income? i'm all for tax reform if you can come up with a reasonable basis for it...

fyi - Oakville does offer a tax rebate and deferral program for low income seniors - perhaps that could help your neighbours:

http://www.oakville.ca/residents/tax...ssistance.html
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  #26  
Old 2014-12-08, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by WellThatsLovely View Post
Their children have grown up here and moved away, so arguably, they should be paying less taxes than they were before.
That's a good point. I never thought about that but it seems perfectly valid!

Kal
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  #27  
Old 2014-12-09, 11:15 AM
WellThatsLovely WellThatsLovely is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakvillehomeowner View Post
that goes back to the basis of taxation. should we tax by headcount? my street has one house with 13 family members in it beside an equivalent valued house with 2 people living in it. how can you accurately and efficiently measure that? should we tax by consumption? income? i'm all for tax reform if you can come up with a reasonable basis for it...

fyi - Oakville does offer a tax rebate and deferral program for low income seniors - perhaps that could help your neighbours:

http://www.oakville.ca/residents/tax...ssistance.html
The neighborhood I mentioned is in Toronto, but either way, it's not much help for anyone living on a pension that never counted on what's happening with this housing market (in case no one has noticed yet, the government has opened its doors to any foreigner with enough money to come here and buy real estate). This has caused housing prices to skyrocket and take people's property taxes with them... also, no one seems to care that their children will never in their lives be able to afford a home here.
Most countries tax the crap out of foreign investors, here, we give them tax breaks.... that's why they're here (I shouldn't complain, I've made a lot of money from it too), but if anyone has ever tried to buy property abroad, they'll know that there are different tax rates and mortgage rates for citizens and foreigners.
So while no one feels sorry for someone whose property is worth $2m (on paper), they should feel less sorry for someone who is only here to invest and then leave.... because what we'll be left with after the housing market is all tapped out, is a huge inventory of empty homes that no one wants and a lifetime of mortgages that our children and grandchildren will be desperately trying to pay off because they didn't happen over here from another country with loaded parents.
People need to start feeling sorry for their own greed and what it's doing to their own country and this housing insanity has to stop because it's going to end in a huge disaster.
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  #28  
Old 2014-12-09, 12:15 PM
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Wouldn't some sort of reverse mortgage be perfect for these individuals? That way they could live well off the increased value.
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  #29  
Old 2014-12-09, 12:47 PM
WellThatsLovely WellThatsLovely is offline
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Then why own property at all? Why not just rent? If home prices continue to increase at the rates they have in the past, there will be very few people who will be able to afford to live in their own homes when they retire and their children will inherit nothing and will never be able to own a home with their own salary. There are already very few recent grads who can afford to buy a home and are secretly counting on inheritance (which is half the reason these people are desperately clinging on to these astronomically priced decrepit homes as long as they can... it costs money to move and why bother if you're going to die in the near future anyway?)
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  #30  
Old 2014-12-09, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WellThatsLovely View Post
Then why own property at all? Why not just rent? If home prices continue to increase at the rates they have in the past, there will be very few people who will be able to afford to live in their own homes when they retire and their children will inherit nothing and will never be able to own a home with their own salary. There are already very few recent grads who can afford to buy a home and are secretly counting on inheritance (which is half the reason these people are desperately clinging on to these astronomically priced decrepit homes as long as they can... it costs money to move and why bother if you're going to die in the near future anyway?)
I agree, it is very tough, if not next to impossible, for people just starting out to buy property of their own. That is a major issue.

But, I'm not sure recent grads should be counting on inhertances to be able to buy a home. At least, I am hoping my kids will be nowhere near being recent grads when they inherit what I have (I hope I live longer than that).

All that said, you can't really blame the problem on the high values of the homes and then not be willing to use the equity you have because of the high values. As I mentioned, if you have a home that is worth as much as you say, there are ways to get equity out of that home that would allow you to stay in the home pretty much as long as you want, pay your bills and help out your kids all at the same time. Of course you would lose the possibilty of having that equity later on for other things.

But, if the homes are as decrepit as you state then sell and move into something smaller, cheaper, nicer and easier to maintain. And you could help the kids now with the proceeds of the sale.

There really is no reason anyone with $2M in equity in their home should not be able to live well and help out their kids if they want.
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