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Old 2016-12-26, 02:41 PM
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Default Tank vs Tankless water heaters.... Intersting read

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/Lon...r-heaters.html
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Old 2016-12-27, 03:30 PM
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Being an owner of a tankless water heater, the author touched on many points that I agree with. However, there is no time stamp on the article. There is mention of Dec. 2006 and the Youtube video is from Dec. 2010 so maybe the article is six to 10 years old. I'm sure since then, even in Marina, California, parts and servicing is more readily available now. And with so many Ontarians renting, I'm guessing parts and servicing is not an issue for us.

One thing he didn't mention is how a tank unit takes up floor space vs a tankless water heater mounts onto an exterior wall. You do gain a lot of room in your furnace area. Useful if you have small basements or plan to finish your basement with more livable space. I never seen a water heater in the garage as mentioned in the article.
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Old 2016-12-27, 09:03 PM
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We just moved into our new home which Enercare installed a Tankless and despite the fact that we intend to replace it with a 50 gallon tank heater we have no choice but to use a unit we never agreed to pay a montlhy fee for nor have we agreed to pay their overpriced buyout fee of 3500. It's just inferior in more ways than it is superior, which, if you read the other articles this article lists below you will see the savings don't pan out under real world conditions. i.e. you would have to own the same tankless water heater for over 20 years for it to pay for itself from all the money it "saves" you... That is of course, if it runs perfectly for 20 years which it won't

Last edited by pabloottawa; 2016-12-28 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 2016-12-29, 12:20 PM
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Ive been living tankless water heater hell for 9 years in one of our condos.

Builder initially installed a quietside boiler through a company names Ozz. There are thousands of these in Ontario.

Multiple minor and major failures over 7 years. A major failure example is a failure in some pump - the unit was spraying water all over the utility room it is installed in. My good fortune was that its a lower unit so most of the water went into the floor drain. Neighbor in the building came home one day to a flooded house from the same type of leak from the unit above. Months in temp accommodation while they rebuilt his apartment.

Then comes the news that they can no longer get parts so it has to be swapped out. So a new unit gets installed that requires new venting (TSSA rule change). The ceiling gets pulled out along 30 feet going through a bathroom and bedroom. Occupants were so pleased.

The new "much better" make and model gets installed. Its most recent problem 2 weeks ago took 3 hvac guys 11 hours over 2 days to diagnose and fix. They had no clue what to do to make it work. These techs are from one of the largest hvac firms in the city.

So to summarize, you can not count on parts being available, complex enough that experienced hvac techs cant fix it, high up front cost, high operating costs, high maintenance costs.

The 'go green' marketing to save the environment and money by going tankless is total bull****.

There is no $aving so the break even point is never. The 4 sq ft of floor space 'saved' is not worth this high level of aggravation and stress. The cost of wasted water (+sewer which more than doubles the cost) is more than any alleged gas saving which is oh ya, too small to measure.

Last edited by good2know; 2016-12-29 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 2016-12-29, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by good2know View Post
Ive been living tankless water heater hell for 9 years in one of our condos.

Builder initially installed a quietside boiler through a company names Ozz. There are thousands of these in Ontario.

Multiple minor and major failures over 7 years. A major failure example is a failure in some pump - the unit was spraying water all over the utility room it is installed in. My good fortune was that its a lower unit so most of the water went into the floor drain. Neighbor in the building came home one day to a flooded house from the same type of leak from the unit above. Months in temp accommodation while they rebuilt his apartment.

Then comes the news that they can no longer get parts so it has to be swapped out. So a new unit gets installed that requires new venting (TSSA rule change). The ceiling gets pulled out along 30 feet going through a bathroom and bedroom. Occupants were so pleased.

The new "much better" make and model gets installed. Its most recent problem 2 weeks ago took 3 hvac guys 11 hours over 2 days to diagnose and fix. They had no clue what to do to make it work. These techs are from one of the largest hvac firms in the city.

So to summarize, you can not count on parts being available, complex enough that experienced hvac techs cant fix it, high up front cost, high operating costs, high maintenance costs.

The 'go green' marketing to save the environment and money by going tankless is total bull****.

There is no $aving so the break even point is never. The 4 sq ft of floor space 'saved' is not worth this high level of aggravation and stress. The cost of wasted water (+sewer which more than doubles the cost) is more than any alleged gas saving which is oh ya, too small to measure.
Ouchy. So how many condos do you rent out? And are they (you) renting the water tank?
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Old 2016-12-29, 07:37 PM
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In this particular case, the original equipment was known to be unreliable and prone to failures.

It was left as a rental since it was a high risk unit and we wanted a cost avoidance measure. Did that ever come true.

There is nothing special or unique about our situation. The neighbours who bought them up front have had similar failures, repairs and replacements.

The other bit of joy: This was set up as a 10 year lease. The buyout at the end was less than $200. Reliance has since bought out the company and all the contracts.

Now they are saying that because it was replaced, the buyout is recalculated based on the new equipment so its back up in the $3600 range.

People with (cricket?) leases need to watch out for this one.
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Old 2016-12-29, 08:27 PM
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The way I see it, tankless water heaters are new age hype. It's new technology that came about as a result of a need somewhere in the world and I'm sure that in those places it is a fantastic alternative but in my opinion, not for Canada. Since I can't speak for anyone else I can only say that MY peace of mind lies in knowing that if ever the power goes out, I have a good shower or two of hot water before I am left high and dry and with Canadian winters being what they are, it makes me feel good enough to stick with the tried and true tank heater. If I lived in Texas a Tankless heater would probably make more sense... Bur not here.
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Old 2016-12-29, 10:59 PM
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Knocking on wood...almost seven years now and still no issues. I even have a dedicated surge protector on mine just in case.
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Old 2016-12-30, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pabloottawa View Post
Since I can't speak for anyone else I can only say that MY peace of mind lies in knowing that if ever the power goes out, I have a good shower or two of hot water before I am left high and dry and with Canadian winters being what they are, it makes me feel good enough to stick with the tried and true tank heater. If I lived in Texas a Tankless heater would probably make more sense... Bur not here.
My tank is power vented which means if the power goes out, I won't have a hot shower, but I have options for that. I didn't want to have a tankless for a couple of reasons: a) extra water cost b) can't recoup the cost in savings.

It's an interesting idea, just not ready for primetime IMHO.
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Old 2016-12-30, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suezuki650 View Post
My tank is power vented which means if the power goes out, I won't have a hot shower, but I have options for that. I didn't want to have a tankless for a couple of reasons: a) extra water cost b) can't recoup the cost in savings.

It's an interesting idea, just not ready for primetime IMHO.
You will if you don't wait too long. The water in the tank should stay hot for a while.
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