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  #421  
Old 2019-06-03, 12:15 PM
suezuki650 suezuki650 is offline
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Originally Posted by pabloottawa View Post
If you never had to pay for any repairs then you make up a small percentage of the people who came here to get help. Iím glad you are doing well and happy with your arrangement but this discussion is about sharing our stories in order to help those who donít like the arrangement of being forced to pay an inflated monthly fee for something they should feel they should own and DONíT feel itís fair to be forced to pay an unfair buyout price to own something that is now worth well below what they are being told they need to pay.
The only people who are reading this post are those with a new build who are wondering if they can get out of their rental. The answer to that is depends and not as cut and dry as you make it to be.

My 'arrangement' is that for years I rented but in my new home I bought out my rental and I now own it. It's an option and as long as the company is being reasonable, a good option.

Your suggestions don't apply to everyone and every case but you state them as facts.
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  #422  
Old 2019-06-08, 07:10 PM
doitright doitright is offline
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Originally Posted by New Orleans View Post
What tank do you have? The one closest to 4K on the buyout schedule is the RUC98 with the buyout cost of $3,980.00. On the Rinnai website for that tank it says this...List Price: CAD 2,588.04
MSRP: CAD 1,941.03 (Not including installation)


So once you add the shipping, installation and tax, your offer of 2K is a little on the low end. Unless you have a different tank but that's the closest to 4K that's on the buyout sheet.
Most of the time the MSRP of the manufacturer is higher than the retailer's price. My story is similar, the RU160IN costs about $1,600, they are asking $3,590, double the retailer's price. I contacted the retailer already, there is no additional cost other than the tax. The installation will be my responsibility and I doubt it will cost much.

If someone is happy with their arrangement, that's good for them but don't make it sound that the EnerCare's deal is the best. I had an EnerCare rental equipment before in a new home and I regret that I stuck in that rental with them. I never had any issue for 9 years with the equipment, yet I paid $40 monthly for the entire 9 years. I did not do the math, not going to happen this time around.

Last edited by doitright; 2019-06-08 at 07:16 PM.
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  #423  
Old 2019-11-30, 01:43 PM
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pabloottawa pabloottawa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suezuki650 View Post
The only people who are reading this post are those with a new build who are wondering if they can get out of their rental. The answer to that is depends and not as cut and dry as you make it to be.

My 'arrangement' is that for years I rented but in my new home I bought out my rental and I now own it. It's an option and as long as the company is being reasonable, a good option.

Your suggestions don't apply to everyone and every case but you state them as facts.
So what is it I said that isn't a fact? Just trying to understand you.
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  #424  
Old 2019-12-01, 10:47 AM
ABoatNerd ABoatNerd is offline
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The issue of forced selling of rental water heaters in new builds is the first issue.

Second is the fact that new home purhasers are being discriminated against, versus, existing home purchasers.

The entire topic is anti-competition.

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictiona...edSelling.aspx


This is why the US Supreme Court outlawed the practice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tying_(commerce)

These water heaters are banned in Australia as they are water wasters.

_________________________________

Now that I have more time, Enercare will be dealt with.

My file is with the Ministry of Consumer and Government Affairs - there is a very interested public servant working on it.

What friggin fun!

Rock on Pablottawa!
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  #425  
Old 2019-12-01, 02:03 PM
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pabloottawa pabloottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by ABoatNerd View Post
The issue of forced selling of rental water heaters in new builds is the first issue.

Second is the fact that new home purhasers are being discriminated against, versus, existing home purchasers.

The entire topic is anti-competition.

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictiona...edSelling.aspx


This is why the US Supreme Court outlawed the practice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tying_(commerce)

These water heaters are banned in Australia as they are water wasters.

_________________________________

Now that I have more time, Enercare will be dealt with.

My file is with the Ministry of Consumer and Government Affairs - there is a very interested public servant working on it.

What friggin fun!

Rock on Pablottawa!
Lol, good to hear boatnerd. Long time no talk. I spoke with our lawyer and he said that since Enercare never took action other than harassing and empty threats, they've exceeded their statute of limitations and are therefore unable to take any type of action. We have their letters and phone conversations so the paper trail is solid enough that they would most likely lose any case mounted against us in court.
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  #426  
Old 2019-12-04, 09:49 PM
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pabloottawa pabloottawa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABoatNerd View Post
The issue of forced selling of rental water heaters in new builds is the first issue.

Second is the fact that new home purhasers are being discriminated against, versus, existing home purchasers.

The entire topic is anti-competition.

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictiona...edSelling.aspx


This is why the US Supreme Court outlawed the practice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tying_(commerce)

These water heaters are banned in Australia as they are water wasters.

_________________________________

Now that I have more time, Enercare will be dealt with.

My file is with the Ministry of Consumer and Government Affairs - there is a very interested public servant working on it.

What friggin fun!

Rock on Pablottawa!
Let's also note that in almost every sales agreement, the tied selling of the rental heater is vague enough to argue in court that it is NOT a legal agreement within the agreement.

So, if you are a potential homeowner and have found the home of your dreams but you know there are 20 other people behind you waiting to buy your house, here is what you can do:

- sign, close the sale.
- wait till the house is built
- take ownership on date of closing
- remove the water heater
- install your own own
- set up your recording device to call the company
- advise the rental company that all calls are being recorded
- advise the rental company that you are not using their property and have purchased and installed your own water heater
- advise them that they STILL, do not have an agreement with you
- Let them know where they can pick up their property

Without:
- Name of seller and buyer
- Specificity of product and/or service
- Fees, terms and conditions
- Free will on both sides to enter into the agreement

THERE IS NO LEGAL CONTRACT OR AGREEMENT


So you could say; "Yeah I signed the sales agreement for the house and I saw the rental clause but, had I known the monthly rental fee would be this high and had i known the buyout cost would be almost double the retail cost I would have negotiated it out of the sales agreement.... Now that I know all this I do not agree to, and will not enter into any type of contract with your company. Those forms you sent me to fill out and sign remain unfilled and unsigned. Your product has been removed and is waiting here for you."

The counter argument to all this is: "Yeah but you signed the sales agreement therefore you must agree to the terms and be our customer."

Your counter argument is; "The paragraph covering the service and/or product does not specify

The name of seller and buyer
The product and/or service
The fees, terms and conditions

So there is no agreement here. We have no contract or agreement of any type and furthermore, if we DID indeed have any type of contract or agreement, then why are you asking me to fill out these forms? Why are we even having this conversation? I should be a happy customer, not one that was forced into being ripped off.
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  #427  
Old 2019-12-05, 08:29 AM
JCC JCC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pabloottawa View Post
Let's also note that in almost every sales agreement, the tied selling of the rental heater is vague enough to argue in court that it is NOT a legal agreement within the agreement.

So, if you are a potential homeowner and have found the home of your dreams but you know there are 20 other people behind you waiting to buy your house, here is what you can do:

- sign, close the sale.
- wait till the house is built
- take ownership on date of closing
- remove the water heater
- install your own own
- set up your recording device to call the company
- advise the rental company that all calls are being recorded
- advise the rental company that you are not using their property and have purchased and installed your own water heater
- advise them that they STILL, do not have an agreement with you
- Let them know where they can pick up their property

Without:
- Name of seller and buyer
- Specificity of product and/or service
- Fees, terms and conditions
- Free will on both sides to enter into the agreement

THERE IS NO LEGAL CONTRACT OR AGREEMENT


So you could say; "Yeah I signed the sales agreement for the house and I saw the rental clause but, had I known the monthly rental fee would be this high and had i known the buyout cost would be almost double the retail cost I would have negotiated it out of the sales agreement.... Now that I know all this I do not agree to, and will not enter into any type of contract with your company. Those forms you sent me to fill out and sign remain unfilled and unsigned. Your product has been removed and is waiting here for you."

The counter argument to all this is: "Yeah but you signed the sales agreement therefore you must agree to the terms and be our customer."

Your counter argument is; "The paragraph covering the service and/or product does not specify

The name of seller and buyer
The product and/or service
The fees, terms and conditions

So there is no agreement here. We have no contract or agreement of any type and furthermore, if we DID indeed have any type of contract or agreement, then why are you asking me to fill out these forms? Why are we even having this conversation? I should be a happy customer, not one that was forced into being ripped off.
What if we've already taken possession, and used the HWH, but have not accepted anything from the company... what can we do then?
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  #428  
Old 2019-12-05, 08:51 AM
Jebus05 Jebus05 is offline
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Location: Enbrun
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I have been negotiating with my builder and he is allowing me to strip the hot water rental from the contract, on the condition that I purchase directly from the builder and that I cannot have someone install one on my behalf.

He is asking for 3400 with installation and taxes included.
Is it worth just paying the price to get out of the contract?

I know with the government rebates right now the tankless hot water heaters are around 1500-2000.

Last edited by Jebus05; 2019-12-05 at 08:57 AM.
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  #429  
Old 2019-12-05, 09:06 AM
JCC JCC is offline
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Originally Posted by Jebus05 View Post
I have been negotiating with my builder and he is allowing me to strip the hot water rental from the contract, on the condition that I purchase directly from the builder and that I cannot have someone install one on my behalf.

He is asking for 3400 with installation and taxes included.
Is it worth just paying the price to get out of the contract?

I know with the government rebates right now the tankless hot water heaters are around 1500-2000.
$3400 tax and install in certainly sounds like a lot less

One thing to note about tankless... doing it retroactively is a bitch. You need a vent for a tankless heater, so you'd have to cut a hole in the side of the house. You'll likely need another $500 - $800 after-the-fact to install the tankless. If they're charging $3400 for tankless, install and taxes in, I'd just do it. Especially if you can roll into mortgage.
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  #430  
Old 2019-12-05, 09:14 AM
Jebus05 Jebus05 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC View Post
$3400 tax and install in certainly sounds like a lot less

One thing to note about tankless... doing it retroactively is a bitch. You need a vent for a tankless heater, so you'd have to cut a hole in the side of the house. You'll likely need another $500 - $800 after-the-fact to install the tankless. If they're charging $3400 for tankless, install and taxes in, I'd just do it. Especially if you can roll into mortgage.
Thats what I was thinking, it was going to be a tankless rental regardless, and it's a new build so the cost of installation is not really a factor, I just don't want to deal with Enercare or cricket etc.

What does a typical install cost to remove a rental system and install the new system? Assuming both are tankless.
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