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  #1  
Old 2019-11-01, 08:47 AM
Halton Home Inspector Halton Home Inspector is offline
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Default Tarion failing new home buyers

Seriously - It's about time that someone other than thousands of new home buyers figured this out.

"According to a scathing report tabled by Bonnie Lysyk, the province's auditor general", - Ontario's home warranty agency "favoured the interests of builders at the expense of homebuyers."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...itor-1.5340520

I personally know cases - where incompetent Tarion "inspectors" sided with builders because they, the Tarion inspectors, didn't know basic codes and / or just didn't do their jobs properly. As a result, these failed "inspections" cleared the builders of obvious code violations, workmanship defects, etc.

As well, the many thousands of false furnace warranty statements made by builders over the years were not controlled by Tarion because initially they seemed oblivious to the sham, but when pushed on them to react, Tarion appeared not motivated to resolve the issue and demand builders stop perpetuating the false myth that AC installs by a third party voids the homes furnace warranty. In fairness to Tarion, it appears as if some large builders simply ignored Tarions suggestions that they stop shamming buyers out of legitimate furnace warranty coverage.
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Last edited by Halton Home Inspector; 2019-11-02 at 11:31 AM.
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  #2  
Old 2019-11-02, 12:31 PM
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GregS GregS is offline
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I've worked with a lot of builders, and all of them were scared of Tarion and any strikes against them. But most of them were all smaller builders instead of larger production builders.
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  #3  
Old 2019-11-02, 01:34 PM
suezuki650 suezuki650 is offline
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IMHO, many of the performance guidelines could use some improvement. Some really poor quality work can easily pass the 'rules'. Something more than builder will fix should be in there too. How they fix is an issue. Adding more mud to a crooked wall is not a fix.

Homeowners should also be given more time to deal with cosmetic issues. PDI and initial move in are busy, overwhelming times and it's easy to miss a lot of issues. I didn't notice marks on the kickplate of one of my cabinets until much later and how do I fix it now?

The other issue I've noticed is that when the builder fixes something, there needs to be a warranty with the fix. I've been in my house for three years now and the fireplace has yet to work properly. Tarion isn't following up on it, as it was on my one year but was repaired and worked for a bit. Luckily the company that put it in has accepted responsibility and is still working with me to resolve. Without that I would have no recourse.
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Old 2019-11-03, 09:12 AM
OttawaC OttawaC is offline
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The whole Tarion process needs to over hauled as it encourages builders to offer a less than product that is riddled with deficiencies and home buyers continue to accept it. No home should ever be delivered with deficiencies - period. There should be little need for home owners to complete 30 day reports with pages and pages of outstanding items. The process should be changes so that builders must deliver a better product.
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Old 2019-11-03, 09:59 AM
Halton Home Inspector Halton Home Inspector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OttawaC View Post
The whole Tarion process needs to over hauled as it encourages builders to offer a less than product that is riddled with deficiencies and home buyers continue to accept it. No home should ever be delivered with deficiencies - period. There should be little need for home owners to complete 30 day reports with pages and pages of outstanding items. The process should be changes so that builders must deliver a better product.
Smaller builders are more likely to deliver a flawless product. That's probably because of better supervision but more likely because they are able to attract and hold employees and are not constantly looking for new people to work for them.

There is also the culture of the company that is important.

Over the years I have talked to dozens of good quality trades people who would never work for the largest builder where I am.

People often think "homes are inspected" by someone. Municipal inspections seem to be very basic. Sometimes it appears as if the house has steps, heat, water, and structural issues in place then the house it fit for occupancy.

The reality of the situation is that no builder or municipality really spends 3 to 4.5 hours systematically reviewing the finished product.

What about -

- missing roof flashings.
- clearance violations with venting, especially HRV intakes.
- missing exhaust vents.
- incorrect exhaust vents.
- missing caulking.
- poor workmanship issues.
- electrical issues.
- insulation issues.
- covered plumbing clean-outs at basement floors.
- equipment not installed properly.
- equipment not operating properly.
- etc, etc, etc,.

The list goes on and on and you will notice that none of these are the proverbial nail-pops and floor squeaks which I don't even look for.

Besides, how many PDI reps out there would even know if - for example - and HRV is installed properly or running properly ?? The answer - hardly any.
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Last edited by Halton Home Inspector; 2019-11-03 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 2019-11-03, 02:43 PM
OttawaC OttawaC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halton Home Inspector View Post
...

The reality of the situation is that no builder or municipality really spends 3 to 4.5 hours systematically reviewing the finished product...
And it is that quality assurance that is missing from the new home industry. The blame for this lies at the feet of the gov't and Tarion with it's 30 day and 1 year reporting process and home buyers who continue to buy new homes that are riddled with deficiencies.
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Old 2019-11-03, 04:31 PM
haivi haivi is offline
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Funny enough. I was informed a while ago that Tarion was actually started in Ottawa by what was considered to be good builders at the time. They created Tarion to differentiate between the good builders vs the bad builders. It's interesting how things change with time.
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Old 2019-11-04, 10:22 AM
Halton Home Inspector Halton Home Inspector is offline
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For all it's worth - lots of my customers ask me what they think of their builder. My answer is often based on how good the after sale warranty service is. Even the largest builders can build a great home but is the warranty workers are often full of excuses when faced with warranty issues then that's a real problem. Many warranty workers default to the "that's not covered because they are either lazy or have no knowledge about the issue. What ever happened to simply saying - " you know what, I have no if this is covered or how to fix it. I'll look into it and get back to you."

Probably the lamest excuse came from a warranty worker from the largest builder in Milton. The issue was basic - The mandoor closer device needed to be adjusted so the the mandoor would fully close and latch shut by itself. This is required so that vehicle exhaust from the garage can not get into the home. The warranty workers excuse was that - "when mandoors close by themselves it wakes up babies". Seriously !!! - it just takes a minute to learn how to adjust mandoor closers. Just do it for @%!$^ sake and fix it.
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Last edited by Halton Home Inspector; 2019-11-04 at 01:15 PM.
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  #9  
Old 2019-11-04, 02:46 PM
alsh alsh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halton Home Inspector View Post
For all it's worth - lots of my customers ask me what they think of their builder. My answer is often based on how good the after sale warranty service is. Even the largest builders can build a great home but is the warranty workers are often full of excuses when faced with warranty issues then that's a real problem. Many warranty workers default to the "that's not covered because they are either lazy or have no knowledge about the issue. What ever happened to simply saying - " you know what, I have no if this is covered or how to fix it. I'll look into it and get back to you."

Probably the lamest excuse came from a warranty worker from the largest builder in Milton. The issue was basic - The mandoor closer device needed to be adjusted so the the mandoor would fully close and latch shut by itself. This is required so that vehicle exhaust from the garage can not get into the home. The warranty workers excuse was that - "when mandoors close by themselves it wakes up babies". Seriously !!! - it just takes a minute to learn how to adjust mandoor closers. Just do it for @%!$^ sake and fix it.
I agree on the after sale service. My after sale experience is horrible, every time I have to follow up and make remind them of appointments and some times the treads are no show.

I think Tarion needs to step out of controlling the warranty and someone else takes over, maybe the government.
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  #10  
Old 2019-11-05, 09:02 AM
Halton Home Inspector Halton Home Inspector is offline
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FYI - Tarion is a game and builders, primarily the larger builders, know how to play that game. This game has time frames for the builder to resolve issues and time frames for the home owner to make a claim to Tarion if the builder does not resolve the issue(s).

The reason why Tarion is such a fail is because so few new home buyers know how to play the game.

Builders often wear people out with missed appointments and debating issues with the new home buyer and many people take the bait and do the back-and-forth thing with the builder.

Don't waste your time debating with the builder over issues. If you have had a professional inspection done by a competent inspector then if the builder fusses about an issue then do not debate it with the builder but instead discuss it with your inspector to determine the next move.

TARION IS MORE FEARFULL OF A NEW HOME BUYER THAT 1) KNOWS HOW TO PLAY THE TARION GAME, AND 2) OF THE NEW HOME BUYER WITH A PROFESSIONAL INSPECTION / INSPECTOR TO BACK THEM UP.
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