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  #21  
Old 2019-11-19, 11:29 AM
GreyingJay GreyingJay is offline
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Yes, a home inspection at the 30-day or 1-year mark is helpful because they can provide both documented proof of an issue (a photo of the deficiency) as well as quote the exact Tarion CPG number that is being violated.

I do think that this is a two-way street and as a homeowner you need to set your expectations. At the PDI you can be super-picky about every little scratch and nick and blemish -- shoot for perfection -- and hope that the builder takes care of every little thing. However, I have seen homeowners (including my own parents) then become demanding about "deficiencies" that they feel "must be fixed by the builder" and I think this can lead to stress on both sides. If you submit a Tarion list that features hundreds of things like "there's a scratch on my fence railing" then that will slow down the resolution of the real issues. (That is an example of an actual thing that my parents saw and suggested I put on my warranty list -- for better or worse, I declined.)
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  #22  
Old 2019-11-19, 12:31 PM
JCC JCC is offline
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Originally Posted by GreyingJay View Post
Yes, a home inspection at the 30-day or 1-year mark is helpful because they can provide both documented proof of an issue (a photo of the deficiency) as well as quote the exact Tarion CPG number that is being violated.

I do think that this is a two-way street and as a homeowner you need to set your expectations. At the PDI you can be super-picky about every little scratch and nick and blemish -- shoot for perfection -- and hope that the builder takes care of every little thing. However, I have seen homeowners (including my own parents) then become demanding about "deficiencies" that they feel "must be fixed by the builder" and I think this can lead to stress on both sides. If you submit a Tarion list that features hundreds of things like "there's a scratch on my fence railing" then that will slow down the resolution of the real issues. (That is an example of an actual thing that my parents saw and suggested I put on my warranty list -- for better or worse, I declined.)
Agreed. While I get that people want what they paid for - a perfect home, there has to be some flex. We tried to avoid putting anything non-major and cosmetic on our list. For example, a little bit of paint needed to be touched up on an interior wall, and we put it on our PDI form, but didn't bother listing it again - they left me paint, I can do it myself.

But things that will cost me out of pocket to fix, I don't have the expertise to fix, or are major things, are 100% on there.

Yes, list things, but pick your battles...that's my advice on most things in life...
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  #23  
Old 2019-11-22, 01:49 PM
Sarah2012 Sarah2012 is offline
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Originally Posted by sjla View Post
Which builder were you with? I've heard some stories about Mattammy I wonder if it's the same area
It was not Mattamy. We actually had a very nice experience with them in Half Moon Bay South in 2012.

We thought we were going up a notch with our last builder, and while I admit the finishes and included features are of a better standard, it was the disconnect with their aftercare service that was horrible. The sad part for everyone involved is that I think we were dealt a crappy hand with our service technician and our warranty rep - both were woefully inadequate and many of our troubles could have been outright avoided if we had been given a different team.
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  #24  
Old 2019-11-28, 12:22 AM
SuperBobby SuperBobby is offline
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.. it was the disconnect with their aftercare service that was horrible. The sad part for everyone involved is that I think we were dealt a crappy hand with our service technician and our warranty rep - both were woefully inadequate and many of our troubles could have been outright avoided if we had been given a different team.
Our new construction just got delivered last spring in Half Moon Bay north. We were assigned a good warranty team but their sub contractors are a real pity when it comes to service. They keep their best employees on new sites and send their new employees getting trained by doing service. Most of the trades had to come 2-3 times. They fix something to break something else. We waited weeks for some to show up and when they do ...there is always something missing on their work order! The lack of organization and skill is so astonishing.

The exterior trades are the worst. If you are not home, they will damage things around!

By the way, this is NOT our fist house. We have been waiting almost two years to get this crappy new construction in Ottawa. Tarion 120 days to get things fixed is way too long. Even if a conciliation inspection is requested, Tarion will give them even more time. There is no such things in the province where I am from. 30 days should be the maximum allowed. When people buy a new car, do the dealer deliver it with a crooked door and cracked windows? No of course, manufacturer is responsible in delivering a finish product absent from defects. Then it should be the same for a new construction. I can't believe that we have to report all deficiencies to the builder and Tarion...it shouldn't be the buyer responsibility to report everything. I had around 100 items on my 30 days Tarion form and I grouped them together to not reach 200. The builder fixed most of them but we wasted all of our vacation for the multiple appointments. There is no words to explain how a bad experience it is to buy a house in this province.
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  #25  
Old 2019-11-28, 08:38 AM
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GregS GregS is offline
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Regarding the car analogy.. if your house was built inside of a factory to the same tolerances, it would cost considerably more.

Mattamy actually tried this years ago.. it was a disaster. Many houses rolling out of the factory down the street to where the foundations had already been poured. Move them on top of the foundation and find out it's a different size. I had to work in many of those.

I work on mostly high end custom homes.. those are not perfect either and have their own sorts of issues.
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  #26  
Old 2019-11-28, 08:42 AM
JCC JCC is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperBobby View Post
Our new construction just got delivered last spring in Half Moon Bay north. We were assigned a good warranty team but their sub contractors are a real pity when it comes to service. They keep their best employees on new sites and send their new employees getting trained by doing service. Most of the trades had to come 2-3 times. They fix something to break something else. We waited weeks for some to show up and when they do ...there is always something missing on their work order! The lack of organization and skill is so astonishing.

The exterior trades are the worst. If you are not home, they will damage things around!

By the way, this is NOT our fist house. We have been waiting almost two years to get this crappy new construction in Ottawa. Tarion 120 days to get things fixed is way too long. Even if a conciliation inspection is requested, Tarion will give them even more time. There is no such things in the province where I am from. 30 days should be the maximum allowed. When people buy a new car, do the dealer deliver it with a crooked door and cracked windows? No of course, manufacturer is responsible in delivering a finish product absent from defects. Then it should be the same for a new construction. I can't believe that we have to report all deficiencies to the builder and Tarion...it shouldn't be the buyer responsibility to report everything. I had around 100 items on my 30 days Tarion form and I grouped them together to not reach 200. The builder fixed most of them but we wasted all of our vacation for the multiple appointments. There is no words to explain how a bad experience it is to buy a house in this province.
You have machines that work on cars. You have strong federal regulations related to vehicle safety. Cars can be made in a couple of hours. That's really an unfair comparison.

That said, I don't disagree. There's no excuse for major items, and those should have a 30 day repair window, but minor things, like paint touch-ups, etc., I think a longer window is fine, because that also gives the option for more things like cracks, paint touch ups, etc., to present themselves.
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  #27  
Old 2019-11-28, 11:13 AM
haivi haivi is offline
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OMG, sorry for your experience. To make you feel slightly better, many people experience similar problems with various builders. The same trade people work for multiple builders. As others had said, anytime a piece of work requires human hand, there is no longer exact science. The worse thing is they will intentionally cut corner if they can get away with it.

There are good builders out there, but they are getting rarer and rarer. If you are buying a new home now, a good advice is to visit one of the existing homes in the neighborhood. If the quality is good, that means the site manager is good and there is a high likelihood that your house will be decent.

We got lucky. Our current house (built 2 years ago) was very well built. We had to nit-pick with lots minor cosmetic issues to come up with a 15-item list for our 30 days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperBobby View Post
Our new construction just got delivered last spring in Half Moon Bay north. We were assigned a good warranty team but their sub contractors are a real pity when it comes to service. They keep their best employees on new sites and send their new employees getting trained by doing service. Most of the trades had to come 2-3 times. They fix something to break something else. We waited weeks for some to show up and when they do ...there is always something missing on their work order! The lack of organization and skill is so astonishing.

The exterior trades are the worst. If you are not home, they will damage things around!

By the way, this is NOT our fist house. We have been waiting almost two years to get this crappy new construction in Ottawa. Tarion 120 days to get things fixed is way too long. Even if a conciliation inspection is requested, Tarion will give them even more time. There is no such things in the province where I am from. 30 days should be the maximum allowed. When people buy a new car, do the dealer deliver it with a crooked door and cracked windows? No of course, manufacturer is responsible in delivering a finish product absent from defects. Then it should be the same for a new construction. I can't believe that we have to report all deficiencies to the builder and Tarion...it shouldn't be the buyer responsibility to report everything. I had around 100 items on my 30 days Tarion form and I grouped them together to not reach 200. The builder fixed most of them but we wasted all of our vacation for the multiple appointments. There is no words to explain how a bad experience it is to buy a house in this province.
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  #28  
Old 2019-11-28, 11:16 AM
Kikka Kikka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperBobby View Post
Our new construction just got delivered last spring in Half Moon Bay north. We were assigned a good warranty team but their sub contractors are a real pity when it comes to service. They keep their best employees on new sites and send their new employees getting trained by doing service. Most of the trades had to come 2-3 times. They fix something to break something else. We waited weeks for some to show up and when they do ...there is always something missing on their work order! The lack of organization and skill is so astonishing.

The exterior trades are the worst. If you are not home, they will damage things around!

By the way, this is NOT our fist house. We have been waiting almost two years to get this crappy new construction in Ottawa. Tarion 120 days to get things fixed is way too long. Even if a conciliation inspection is requested, Tarion will give them even more time. There is no such things in the province where I am from. 30 days should be the maximum allowed. When people buy a new car, do the dealer deliver it with a crooked door and cracked windows? No of course, manufacturer is responsible in delivering a finish product absent from defects. Then it should be the same for a new construction. I can't believe that we have to report all deficiencies to the builder and Tarion...it shouldn't be the buyer responsibility to report everything. I had around 100 items on my 30 days Tarion form and I grouped them together to not reach 200. The builder fixed most of them but we wasted all of our vacation for the multiple appointments. There is no words to explain how a bad experience it is to buy a house in this province.
Problem with Tarion is as a owner you have to prove that the builder gave you a defective item. That is, onus on homeowner. That makes it extremely onerous to get anything done and you have to shell out lot of money to prove this by independent consultants and inspection. It should be the other way around. The builder should prove they did not give defective product if it starts breaking within a year. If a product breaks in a year ( could be anything such as cracked shingles, cracked hardwood etc), then it is no good.
This is why i believe Tarion is useless and not consumer friendly eventhough we shell out money to them for warranty.
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  #29  
Old 2019-11-28, 11:29 AM
JCC JCC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haivi View Post
OMG, sorry for your experience. To make you feel slightly better, many people experience similar problems with various builders. The same trade people work for multiple builders. As others had said, anytime a piece of work requires human hand, there is no longer exact science. The worse thing is they will intentionally cut corner if they can get away with it.

There are good builders out there, but they are getting rarer and rarer. If you are buying a new home now, a good advice is to visit one of the existing homes in the neighborhood. If the quality is good, that means the site manager is good and there is a high likelihood that your house will be decent.

We got lucky. Our current house (built 2 years ago) was very well built. We had to nit-pick with lots minor cosmetic issues to come up with a 15-item list for our 30 days.
I think we got fairly lucky too. Especially after hearing what some of the other people in our neighborhood and others had. We had a 50 item tarion list, BUT, it would have been like 15 if I wasn't a jerk and actually grouped things (If one thing was consistently missing throughout the house, I would put a singular line item for each missing item (for example, window screens)).
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  #30  
Old 2019-11-29, 02:10 PM
SuperBobby SuperBobby is offline
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Originally Posted by JCC View Post
You have machines that work on cars. You have strong federal regulations related to vehicle safety. Cars can be made in a couple of hours. That's really an unfair comparison.

That said, I don't disagree. There's no excuse for major items, and those should have a 30 day repair window, but minor things, like paint touch-ups, etc., I think a longer window is fine, because that also gives the option for more things like cracks, paint touch ups, etc., to present themselves.
Lets just say that the "obvious" deficiencies should have been taken care before delivery. As you said, minor things (a bit of caulking, a bit of paint, floor cracking...) can wait a few more weeks.

Just to give you one example of what is not acceptable...Our new construction had several cracked windows, about half of them were replaced at delivery. Nope the house was not shifting, an untrained windows tech installed these. From those that got replaced, all of them had a cracked sash. The windows cie have been scheduled several times by the builder to meet us, but they never showed up. After two months, I decided to take care of the situation myself by writing a complaint online...problem solved.

People would say that sub contractors are not being well paid by big builders and we should not expect much. Well they accepted the contract and service is part of it.

Last edited by SuperBobby; 2019-11-29 at 02:12 PM.
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