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  #21  
Old 2014-01-12, 08:00 PM
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good2know good2know is offline
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This applies to all cosmetic damages - do a full inspection when you get the keys and take lots of pics.

Advise Tarion (Monday am) but certainly before possession that you are not satisfied with what happened and that the report does not reflect problems found.

Have your lawyer send a letter to builder and Tarion that says the same thing.

You must establish before possession that the pdi document can not be relied upon as properly describing condition of the property.

Last edited by good2know; 2014-01-12 at 08:02 PM.
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  #22  
Old 2014-01-13, 12:23 AM
agilowen agilowen is offline
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Thanks for the tips guys. I'll definitely do a thorough visual inspection upon receiving my keys (without the pressure of the builder around) and will document everything prior to moving.

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What I have done to help people with PDI's is to develop a fee paid service called PDI Assist. I only offer this service when the client agrees to also book me to come back to do a "proper" and real 30 day "home inspection" of the home .
I think that's a service I would have signed up for. I emailed a couple of inspectors before my PDI asking for a package deal for my PDI and 30 day inspections. The general consensus was that only 1 was needed, and most recommended to wait for my 30 days (and probably rightly so). I think the PDI Assist is exactly what I was looking for, i.e. bringing someone experienced along with me, who has the knowledge to assist me in identifying the defects that should be noted during the PDI (and to stand up to the builder's representative by virtue of his experience and credentials). A knowledgeable parent or relative would have done the job too, but in the absence of that, a PDI Assist service would have helped.
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  #23  
Old 2014-01-13, 08:25 AM
Halton Home Inspector Halton Home Inspector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agilowen View Post
Thanks for the tips guys. I'll definitely do a thorough visual inspection upon receiving my keys (without the pressure of the builder around) and will document everything prior to moving.



I think that's a service I would have signed up for. I emailed a couple of inspectors before my PDI asking for a package deal for my PDI and 30 day inspections. The general consensus was that only 1 was needed, and most recommended to wait for my 30 days (and probably rightly so). I think the PDI Assist is exactly what I was looking for, i.e. bringing someone experienced along with me, who has the knowledge to assist me in identifying the defects that should be noted during the PDI (and to stand up to the builder's representative by virtue of his experience and credentials). A knowledgeable parent or relative would have done the job too, but in the absence of that, a PDI Assist service would have helped.
Thanks agilowen,

I developed PDI Assist because it was obvious to me years ago that the PDI is the worst time to do a "home inspection" yet new home buyers were constantly being taken advantage of during PDI's by builders. Often builders Reps would tell people things like "don't worry, everything is covered for one year" when that is 100% not true.

The problem though is that many inspectors do or did not understand this and therefore are the distraction your builder talked about as they would conduct their inappropriately timed "home inspection. As a result some builders like Mattamy have blocked new home buyers from having help during the PDI by doing 2 things.

1 - they make the inspector and the new home buyer sign a "code of conduct" contract that essentially requires that the Inspector "remain silent" during the PDI. The contract does say that the Inspector can talk at the end of the PDI but IMO there is no point in hiring someone when you can not talk to that person during that process.

or 2 - from my experience, when I helped with the last PDI that I did at a Mattamy home, the PDI Rep choose to act miserable and childish throughout the PDI and in the end she refused to note issues I had found during the PDI.

When I sent a copy of the "Code of Conduct" to the Tarion Ombudsperson they did a little very flawed investigation and decided it was OK for the builder to force buyers to agree to the terms that their inspector be muzzled.

Last edited by Halton Home Inspector; 2014-01-13 at 08:30 AM.
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  #24  
Old 2014-01-13, 09:40 AM
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Builder reactions to independant inspectors being at the PDI will vary. In Ottawa, having involvement in many hundreds of PDI's over the years, my experiences have been quite favourable. Most builders have been cordial and cooperative to me during the PDI's. With our reporting system, our summary report is often attached to the PDI document by the builder.

I do not interfer with the builder rep during a PDI inspection. I ask for a few minutes at the beginning of the inspection to review the process I'm following and provide orientation to my role in the PDI. I typically keep out of the way of the builder rep during the PDI, unless I come across some issue that is an immediate health and safety issue, or is of such significance that not to speak up would be plain stupid. At the end of the inspection, with permission from my client, I prepare 2 copies of our summary report, so that I can include the builder in the review process and give them a copy of the summary report. Builder's have not been resistive to my taking up perhaps 15 minutes to go over my report. This process has worked well for me, and so far, most PDI's go well.

In our market, I come as no surprise to the builders. I've been around for quite some time, and in general they know how I call things. In some cases, PDI's have been rescheduled when the builder is made aware that I'm going to be at the PDI.

Just once, Mattamy had me sign that form, and the rep was quite sheepish in asking. Signing did not affect my ability to do my job. Never got asked again; never had any problems with Mattamy. I'm at a loss to recall the last time I had any touchy situation with a builder's rep during a PDI. I think my reputation preceeds me, so I come as no surprise to anyone.
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Last edited by Inspector Phil Acker; 2014-01-13 at 09:48 AM.
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  #25  
Old 2014-01-13, 11:20 AM
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In this thread (post 3) there is a list of the things Tarion recommends checking at pdi. Suggest you focus on those at possession day>>

http://www.buildinghomes.ca/communit...ad.php?t=19138
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  #26  
Old 2014-01-13, 11:28 PM
Halton Home Inspector Halton Home Inspector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Phil Acker View Post
Builder reactions to independant inspectors being at the PDI will vary. In Ottawa, having involvement in many hundreds of PDI's over the years, my experiences have been quite favourable. Most builders have been cordial and cooperative to me during the PDI's. With our reporting system, our summary report is often attached to the PDI document by the builder.

I do not interfer with the builder rep during a PDI inspection. I ask for a few minutes at the beginning of the inspection to review the process I'm following and provide orientation to my role in the PDI. I typically keep out of the way of the builder rep during the PDI, unless I come across some issue that is an immediate health and safety issue, or is of such significance that not to speak up would be plain stupid. At the end of the inspection, with permission from my client, I prepare 2 copies of our summary report, so that I can include the builder in the review process and give them a copy of the summary report. Builder's have not been resistive to my taking up perhaps 15 minutes to go over my report. This process has worked well for me, and so far, most PDI's go well.

In our market, I come as no surprise to the builders. I've been around for quite some time, and in general they know how I call things. In some cases, PDI's have been rescheduled when the builder is made aware that I'm going to be at the PDI.

Just once, Mattamy had me sign that form, and the rep was quite sheepish in asking. Signing did not affect my ability to do my job. Never got asked again; never had any problems with Mattamy. I'm at a loss to recall the last time I had any touchy situation with a builder's rep during a PDI. I think my reputation preceeds me, so I come as no surprise to anyone.
Well, it sounds like you have it right. You help with the PDI and do not try to do a "home inspection", but keep in mind that this topic changed to the subject of PDI's as a result of a post from one person who was understandably not pleased with their PDI experience as a result of the builders rep and another post by someone who was mislead by a builders rep by being told he could not have assistance during the PDI.

Last edited by Halton Home Inspector; 2014-01-13 at 11:39 PM.
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  #27  
Old 2014-01-15, 12:19 PM
agilowen agilowen is offline
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Just an update -

I've since contacted my builder and have scheduled a PDI follow-up tomorrow at my home (1 week before possession). The warranty service manager is supposed to be present too. I've taken all your tips and hope to get a better job done tomorrow. Wish me luck and let me know if you've got further advice.
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  #28  
Old 2014-01-15, 05:37 PM
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One reinforcement - the pdi report is yours. Ensure it includes every single thing you are uncomfortable with. The pdi is NOT the place/time for the builder to negotiate what they will address.

We refused to sign one once - the builder got very proactive all of a sudden
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