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  #21  
Old 2018-03-09, 12:24 AM
Mark & Lynda Mark & Lynda is offline
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As good2know said. No reason to extend the supply to the floor. A cold air return close to the floor will pull the cold air off the floor allowing the warm air to get down.

IMO remove the bag insulation. It's never sealed properly and condensates in the winter behind the plastic. Closing it in could trap moisture.
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  #22  
Old 2018-03-09, 07:36 AM
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I understand. There is no reason to do that. You don't want the ducts inside an exterior wall.
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  #23  
Old 2018-03-09, 09:21 AM
BartBandy BartBandy is offline
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I extended one duct down to just above the floor. But yes, a basement cold air return should be low.

The bagged insulation should go because it is going to condensate, like others have said. Very expensive homes in our area just studded in front of the bagged insulation and called it a day. They also put laminate over a layer of poly on the floor.

It sounds like we're in general agreement that headers should be spray foamed 3" for R20. The walls can get to R20 with spray foam or rigid foam, or even the Roxul semi-rigid board insulation works I understand, but then you need poly again. I vote spray foam because it's done in a day, though you have to be out of the house for 24 hours.

Then you need a dimpled floor membrane. I'm a big fan of DryBarrier, sold through Lowes nationally and IHL in Vaughan. Our basement, with spray foam and DryBarrier, is the most comfortable part of our house.
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  #24  
Old 2018-03-09, 10:23 AM
homie27 homie27 is offline
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when you say cold air return, do you mean that duct that has no vent and there is usually only one? that one is in the ceiling and pointing sideways. will they have to move that around? because if they just put drywall for the ceiling, it will be covered.

how does the bagged insulation condensate? I talked to my cousin who's a site supervisor and he said its ok to leave it as is.

and what are headers?

you're saying to put dimpled floor membrane and the flooring goes ontop? this company uses vinyl strips that look like wood and they use this reflective membrane underneath. he says it reflects the heat up and keeps the floor warm, or at least not cold like the concrete is now.
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  #25  
Old 2018-03-09, 03:48 PM
BartBandy BartBandy is offline
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Bagged insulation comes in a roll with 6 mil vapour barrier attached. They hack it around basement windows and often extend it up into the headers or joist cavities, which is the space between the joists at the outside walls.

A few years ago, bagged insulation was R14. Newer code is R20, so thicker. It is put up quickly, and any holes in the poly let warm moist air in. That air hits a colder spot somewhere in the middle of the insulation and the moist air hits the dew point where the water starts condensating out of the air. It gets the pink fibreglass insulation wet, and you see the pink dye running on the floor.

Can you keep it? Yes. I think it's barn insulation, at best. Some farmer wanted mine, and that's how I got rid of it, for free, on Kijiji. He helped take it down.

It's not the space, it's the comfort, and the potential for dampness behind the wall. Spray foamed basements are very comfortable.

Some form of air barrier below the floor helps dry any moisture from below so things don't get musty. It separates the floor from the concrete. I don't see how reflective flooring is going to do much, but my vote is always a dimpled membrane of some type, though preferably one without wood in it, unless absolutely necessary.

I went with DryBarrier because it's a rubberized plastic that you can put laminate directly on top of. I've use DeltaFL, but that can click when you walk over a low spot. Some people use foundation wrap because it's cheap, but it's made from recycled plastic (DeltaFL is virgin plastic) and it tends to smell for a while.

I suggest not putting anything directly on concrete. There should be some form of air circulation available. But that's me.

Spray foam used to be about $1.10-$1.50 per 12"x12"x1". It is a little less than R7 per inch. You need 3 inches for R20. The math is pretty simple. Perimeter x height to underside of plywood above x 3 x $1.25 (say).

A good subfloor will run you a little more than $2/sq.ft.

If your basement is 30'x40'x9' (say, to underside of plywood):

Spray foam = 140 lf x 9 x 3 x 1.25 = $4750

Subfloor = 1200 x 2.25 = $2700

With taxes, you're in the $8400 range. Which really, if you're finishing your basement on a close to million dollar house or better, isn't a dealbreaker to me. People spend that on a stove. And now it's very cosy. I've been in new basements in $2 million homes that a feel drafty and cold underfoot. I don't get it. We know how to do this, but people cheap out on the bones of the home.
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  #26  
Old 2018-03-09, 05:41 PM
homie27 homie27 is offline
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thanks for the detailed post BartBandy
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  #27  
Old 2018-03-10, 12:38 AM
Mark & Lynda Mark & Lynda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBandy View Post
It is put up quickly, and any holes in the poly let warm moist air in. That air hits a colder spot somewhere in the middle of the insulation and the moist air hits the dew point where the water starts condensating out of the air. It gets the pink fibreglass insulation wet, and you see the pink dye running on the floor.
I have half wall bag insulation so the condensation problem is even worse. The bottom of the bag is not sealed at all. The metal strapping they use just holds it up but I can easily stick my arm up and under.
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  #28  
Old 2018-03-10, 04:37 PM
homie27 homie27 is offline
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hi all I just met with another company and they said they would have to move my cold air return from the ceiling down to the bottom of the basement, close to the furnace. the heat registers would stay on the ceiling. The previous company would be moving the heat registers from the ceiling to the lower part of the walls. I don't know what they would do with the register. i'll ask them tomorrow when I meet with them again. any thoughts?
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  #29  
Old 2018-03-11, 01:53 PM
BartBandy BartBandy is offline
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Air return needs to be low in a finished basement. Registers should be low, but ceiling isn't a big deal to me. I have a mix of both. You just don't want to sit directly under a register. Don't have one above a couch.
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  #30  
Old 2018-03-11, 02:00 PM
homie27 homie27 is offline
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another update: we went back to the first company and talked about a bunch of stuff. they will also be moving the cold air return to the bottom close to the furnace. as for the heat registers, they put them on the wall, closer to the floor and they use rectangular ducts that will fit within the 2x4" metal studs. so the distance between the foundation and the drywall is about 7 inches. I can live with that. I hope that helps with the cold floors because they only use vinyl flooring and a thin reflective layer underneath. I went to one of their model homes yesterday and although the air temperature was fine, the floors were cold. I'm hoping it was for other reasons.
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