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King Township / Kleinburg Hills Aspen Ridge, Country Wide Homes and more!


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Old 2010-05-21, 02:47 AM
BartBandy BartBandy is offline
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Default King Country Estates and Fandor Homes in Nobleton

I think "Richmond Hill is about the best subforum for this, as King City discussions are here. Anyway....

We're looking for a home in the Nobleton area. We've found the resale prices in town are insane. $629K gets you a 20 year old, 2200 sq.ft., 4 bedroom house with minimal upgrades that was never maintained properly and needs brick work. On a whacking big lot, mind you, because they used to be on septic beds. With sewers coming to town, you'll be charged $19K to hook up. No ifs, ands, or buts.

So, enter Aspen Ridge, CountryWide, and Rosehaven and their King Country Estates. Prices start around $660K. For that, you get a 2500 sq.ft. two storey, 4 bedroom house w/9' ceilings on the ground floor, hardwood throughout, on a 50'x100' lot from Aspen Ridge. Not the 90'x200' that is common in the 20 year old part of town, but not postage stamp size.

Move your sights slightly higher, and you're around $700K for a 3000 sq.ft. Aspen Ridge on a 56'x100' lot. Rosehaven has this, and throws in 10'/9' ceilings for $720K. Prices max out at $1.5M. Seriously.

Big numbers, I know. But we love the area. We love that it's a little outside of town, and is surrounded by greenspace, instead of fields that will soon become even more homes.

My initial questions are, are we insane for thinking about it, and is anyone else looking in the area?

At this point, we are serious, and will probably have a sales appointment soon. Our target is a <$700K model (56' lot) from Aspen Ridge, but a $720K model from Rosehaven wouldn't be a bad plan B.

This area is about 60-70% sold out, has been on sale since early 2010, and is selling slowly at this point. Closing was supposed to be this year, but is now early 2011. There is a lot of work I can do myself, but the kitchen and some other items would be a lot easier if the builder did them (mostly kitchen items, where we could probably burn through that $10K rather quickly).

My secondary question is, how do you think we should approach negotiations? Should we be aiming for money off the purchase price, free upgrades, both? What sort of discounts are people getting these days? I like that I have a backup in Rosehaven if Aspen Ridge won't budge, and I'm not looking to be a bastard during the meeting. I don't want to ask for too much, but I want a fair deal.

Thanks.

Last edited by BartBandy; 2014-10-23 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 2010-05-21, 09:08 AM
newhillian newhillian is offline
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Hi there.

As we recently (7 mo. ago) purchased from Aspen Ridge, we "toured" the Kings Country models. We wanted to see what the advertised hype was about.

The houses were nice-the bungalofts in-particular.

I personally think that the area will only appreciate, as there is little to no development going on in all of King, considering that King is within most commuter's "zone" of tolerance.

As for negotiating, I can't speak for Countrywide or Rosehaven (although all 3 builders are family-connected to each other). With Aspen Ridge, there was no negotiating. Most other buyers would agree as well.
If sales are slow, give it a try, you never know; but I wouldn't "expect" any special deals or discounts.

Just an aside, the actual site is at Hwy 27, therefore you may get more traction if this was posted in the Markham/Thornhill/Vaughan section.


Regards.

Last edited by newhillian; 2010-05-21 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 2010-06-02, 12:01 PM
BartBandy BartBandy is offline
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Well, it appears you were right about negotiations (I was promised that nobody will be able to negotiate), but we've bought now, with an estimated closing date in February 2011.

As for the appropriate subforum, I assumed Richmond Hill because we're north of the Markham/Thornhill/Vaughan 407 corridor,and King City is being discussed here. Nobleton is definitely York Region, but in no-man's-land when it comes to the subforum descriptions on this site.

Thanks for your input. We can't wait to move in, though it appears we'll have to.
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Old 2010-06-03, 12:51 AM
newhillian newhillian is offline
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Congratulations!

At least Aspen Ridge is being consistent re their "no negociations" rule.

At the 3-4 month (prior to Closing) mark, you'll have your structural and colour appointments.

As for posting in the Richmond Hill section, I agree with your logic, why not post here.
Besides, the Markham/Vaughan section already has a ton of posts. This section needs the traffic...


Keep us posted.
Good Luck.
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Old 2010-06-16, 10:03 PM
BartBandy BartBandy is offline
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Going to the structural appointment soon - 8 months before scheduled closing.

Now, we already have two concerns with this new home, and they've both come up since the deal was signed. I may go into the second one later, but the first is that we, as the home buyer, have no choice regarding whether we get the floor plans as shown, or the mirror image of that floor plan. That decision is apparently made by "planning", whoever "planning" is.

At the upcoming structural meeting, one thing we have to decide upon is which basement windows to enlarge. Why would we enlarge the north basement windows? We want to enlarge the ones with a southern exposure. Because our house faces east, this now becomes a crap shoot. Hopefully they have "planning's" answer to the stardard/mirrored question at the structural meeting.
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Old 2010-06-16, 10:37 PM
Toukolou Toukolou is offline
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Same thing happened to us, we got the mirrored layout. No real big deal for us. Let us know what they tell you.
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Old 2010-06-17, 04:44 PM
BartBandy BartBandy is offline
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Just got word - we get the standard layout. Our neighbours bought the same model (but stone instead of brick) and their home was mirrored. Looking at their concrete footings prompted me to ask the sales office, where I found out about the possibility.

But there are ongoing concerns about some of the joist spans. We'll see how those are addressed.
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Old 2010-06-18, 02:43 PM
BartBandy BartBandy is offline
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Seems I already have my first disagreement with Aspen Ridge. I managed to get a look at the plans for our model, and realized they were using 2x10 floor joists @ 12" o.c. to span 17'-0" (centre of support to centre of support) at our kitchen and breakfast room on the main floor, and the master bedroom on the second floor.

This is seriously pushing the boundaries of 2x10s, even if they are blocked and strapped.

Now, the Canadian Wood Council publishes a 2004 Span Book that shows an allowable span of 17'-3". But Part 9 of the 2006 O.B.C. lists the maximum span of SPF No. 2 2x10 joists @ 12" o.c. as 4.6m = 15'-1".

Aspen Ridge has just gotten back to me, saying they will be building the home as designed, unless I upgrade to 2x12 joists for a cost of $6000.

Nice.

I'll be going to the township's plans examiner with this one.

Last edited by BartBandy; 2010-07-07 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 2010-07-07, 09:34 PM
BartBandy BartBandy is offline
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Finally got to see the King Township Building Dep't., and they were given the wrong damn drawings. They think my floorplan is the standard one, with a 15' joist span. It's not - it's the alternate plan with a 17' joist span.

Grrr....
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Old 2010-08-06, 10:26 AM
BartBandy BartBandy is offline
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OK, feeling a little less anxious about this house, now that I understand how the system works.

Basically, during construction, no information flows back to the buyer, because the buyer is not yet the homeowner. Flag something with the town? They will investigate, but they won't update you. Flag something on site or with the design to the builder? They may or may not take action, and either way, they won't tell you what they are doing. It's maddening, but at least I know not to expect any information to come back my way now.

Last week I flagged that a basement window was installed in the wrong location. I got the impression that the site super didn't believe me, as he quoted a dimension from a hand sketch he showed me that was incorrect. Luckily, we just had our final decor centre meeting and I confirmed there that my dimension was correct, so our design coordinator emailed the super to confirm the window was offset 10" from where we specified, centred below the window above. I'm supposed to let her know if the window is not corrected in the next "week or two". Again, builders (at least AR) are not set up to inform buyers of what is happening on site - not even to correct issues raised by the buyer. It's maddening, but that's the way it is.

Therefore, I have to stay on top of construction more than ever. That's the only solution I see. For example, 5 houses down the road, there is a home with two 5' wide windows, supposed to be centred one above the other. They are offset by about 4". There is absolutely no reason for this, and any AR inspector should have seen this error from the outside while they were framing. Now the brick is on. If I were the buyer, I'd be raising hell, but I know some people don't have my background in the construction industry, or perhaps they don't care that their house doesn't line up. My position is that there are acceptable tolerances in any industry. You wouldn't accept a car with a hood that was offset 1/4" from centre, but you likely wouldn't notice if it was 1/64" off centre. If a home window is offset by 1", I don't think anyone would care. But 5" isn't a rounding error - it's an order of magnitude.

/soap box

BTW, I've given up the fight on the floor joists. I'll build a partition wall below to support them at about 1/3 span. They are within a couple of inches of not passing OBC vibration code, and whether they pass or not literally depends on whether you measure the span from the centre of the supports, or the inside face of the supports. They contend it is the inside face, and my position is that nowhere in my engineering degree did anyone mention wood design spans were from the inside face of supports - that's concrete design. If you measure from the inside face of a steel beam, for example, now you're saying there is an offset load on the beam, so you're torquing the beam! Now you've introduced a whole new problem.

Last edited by BartBandy; 2010-08-06 at 10:31 AM.
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