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Old 2013-06-27, 08:10 PM
Mark & Lynda Mark & Lynda is offline
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Default Mother charged after toddler left in car in Markham

What is wrong with people that think it's acceptable to leave a 2 year old in a car in the summer? Boggles my mind.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013...n_markham.html
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Old 2013-06-27, 11:42 PM
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The one in Milton really bothered me. Kid died.
It's a short street. I personally installed 4 GDOs on that same street.. so chances are I met the parents (at least 3 years ago)

Stupid stupid stupid stupid thing.
I get nervous just getting into a hot car with my 3 year old.
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Old 2013-06-28, 09:01 AM
R.F.D. R.F.D. is offline
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The Milton one was pretty shocking and unfortunate I cannot imagine how the "extended family" member must be right now. The Markham one was just puzzling especially in light of what just happened in Milton. I'm trying to walk through the thoughts of the individual as they make the decision on a 30 degree day to "crack" a window and leave the sunroof open and leave a child unattended. I never new this but over 40 kids per year succumb to this tragedy every year in the states, the number is at 23 already this year. I dunno it might sound cruel but a suitable punishment would be a little tit for tat and let the parents bake a little.
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Old 2013-07-02, 08:48 AM
bcpl bcpl is offline
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I think that a "suitable punishment" has already been metted out.

I know no one who wants:
1) the cops called on them to get their kid out of a hot car
2) their window smashed to get their kid out of a how car
3) seeing their kid stressed from being in a hot car
4) finding their kid roasted in a hot car

I suspect that in many cases it was a mistake; in others, it is ignorance.
I think education here is a better option.

I would rather that people understand that this is a dangerous situation and why it should not be done. The alternative has people continuing to leave kids in their car when they believe there is little chance that they will get caught.

Last edited by bcpl; 2013-07-02 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 2013-07-03, 01:06 PM
R.F.D. R.F.D. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcpl View Post
I think education here is a better option.
Really???? You think education is the answer? You need to be educated to understand that you should not leave a child 1) unattended 2) in a stifling car

I don't leave milk in my car...if you are foolish enough to do this in the public eye I can just imagine what they must do behind closed doors....

Keep in mind I'm not referring to the Milton case, that was just a very unfortunate culmination of events leading to a horrific tragedy.
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Old 2013-07-04, 04:15 PM
bcpl bcpl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.F.D. View Post
if you are foolish enough to do this in the public eye I can just imagine what they must do behind closed doors....
This is an awful accusation. Even if you are excusing the Milton case, to assume that people who leave kids in a car are child abusers is awful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by R.F.D. View Post
Really???? You think education is the answer?
Yeah, education is the better response.
It needs to be drilled into people that kids die in hot cars.

The threat of punishment has little effect if the person committing the act does not believe that they will be caught. Those that it will have an effect on are likely those that are sensitive enough to not do it anyway.

If society wants to try a punishment tact to curb this, they are going to need to have patrols in every parking lot and sidewalk to ensure that people get caught -unlikely. We do not want to change the behaviour of people only when they are beside a cop, or if they are in a full parking lot with people watching them.

Seriously, I wear my seat belt because I do not want to be ejected through the windshield; not because I am afraid of being caught. This was not always the case. Back in the day, before people were educated on this, it was a toss up if they were going to wear selt belts or not. It was tough to overcome this. It was impressing on people that although they are unlikely to get caught, and unlikely to have an accident, the consequences of not wearing your seat belt if you did have an accident, are severe.

These days we have a similar problem...tonnes of people *still* talk on their cells while driving. It comes with a stiff fine but take a short drive and I bet you will see more than a few people chatting away.

Consider why you do not leave your milk in the car.
Is it because you fear punishment?
More likely it is because you were educated why you should not do this, either by experience (drinking spoiled milk after leaving it to bake), by watching someone else wreck their milk or by someone telling you what will happen.

If we want real change to stop people from baking their kids, we need education.
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Old 2013-07-04, 04:36 PM
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Very well said bcpl
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Old 2013-07-04, 05:41 PM
Mark & Lynda Mark & Lynda is offline
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How do we educate people more than we already do? Isn't it common sense? Maybe we need both.

I'm pretty certain I've heard radio stations already announce warnings when the outdoor temps are so dangerous as to leave children and seniors unattended, but, not everyone listens to radio. So how do we educate more?

Maybe government can mandate all auto manufacturers to install safety systems in vehicles that detect motion inside the vehicle and turn on the engine and AC above certain temperatures. Because government need to protect us
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Old 2013-07-04, 10:07 PM
PJD PJD is offline
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At the end of the day Bcpl is correct. We must educate people. What may be common sense to one person isn't to another, sadly. Or in some instances, they think it's harmless, meaning they don't realize how quickly it can all go wrong.

That's just life. Public education is always ongoing. Another example is drinking and driving. Even if it still goes on, it was a lot worse a few years ago. And one could assume that's also an issue of common sense.

Look at the cases of drowning, whether in bath tubs from parents who thought they were just walking away for a minute or in a pool or a lake. It can all happen so quickly. I doubt everyone is negligent. Accidents do happen, but the more we educate about the dangers and how quickly it can happen, we can only hope less people will take chances.
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Old 2013-07-05, 08:57 AM
bcpl bcpl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark & Lynda View Post
How do we educate people more than we already do? Isn't it common sense? Maybe we need both.
What will be the most effective way to educate people on this? That is the key question, for sure.

My first response would be... research.
We need to know why people are doing this. We need to know why people make this choice (when it is a choice and not a mistake). Why do they think the kid will be okay?

When we know more about this, the education can be tailored to address it better. That said, I do not know this field very well. There may already be some work done on it.

Broad warnings (like on the radio) are meant for everyone - even those without kids and those who will never be in a position to leave a kid in a car. This is called primary intervention. Good at getting the message out, but bad at changing behaviour. It is easy to ignore this if it is perceived as a general warning to everyone. We all like to believe that we are the exception. The benefit here is that people without kids are now more willing to call the cops when a child is in danger. In a round about way it can put pressure on parents to stop but it really is indirect and will not change a parentís behaviour if they know they are the only car in the lot.

Secondary intervention directs the intervention toward those that is applies to. I do not remember receiving a pamphlet (or something) when my kids were born. Maybe we did, I was too busy and tired at the time... but this would be a good idea. Also, we could be more targeted. Put a sign up in the store parking lot "Please do not leave your kids in the car" or even better a sign with an active thermometer on it. Again, I am not sure what would be best. Someone would need to more into why this happens. *This* is how we change behaviour.

Tertiary intervention (btw) addresses the most focused group of people. These would be people who have already had consequences (kidís health, police intervention) for leaving their kids in the car. I would be willing to bet that most people in this group will not persist in leaving their kids in the car. The consequences themselves act as a punishment. For those that do persist... sure... stick them in a car to see how hot it gets. Do whatever you want for a punishment - get your vindictiveness on. Just know that before they change their behaviour the *need* to believe that they will get caught.
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