Go Back   BuildingHomes.ca - Building your community! > Ontario > Ottawa

Ottawa For those in Ottawa, Kanata, Stittsville, Orleans, Nepean. Mattamy, Minto, Bridlewood, Cardel, Claridge, Braebury, Monarch, Barrhaven, Half Moon Bay, Fairwinds, Findlay Creek, Notting Hill, West Pointe, Stonebridge, Edinburgh Common, Uniform at Orchard-Stonebridge-Barrhaven and more!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #361  
Old 2018-12-19, 01:07 PM
New Orleans New Orleans is offline
Senior Member
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Notting Hill South
Posts: 651
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMBTUX View Post
You're missing a very important point. It's very clear that the speed limit is not 130 kmh. But it's not at all clear that homeowners are in any type of legally binding contract when they are force fed the rental tanks. What makes the rental companies particularly unethical is that they try and bluff people into thinking they don't have a choice, when in law they often do. I can assure you that the rental companies would be highly unsuccessful chasing consumers through the civil courts for payment when consumers opt out - they of course know this, and so don't waste their time or resources here. They instead rely on ignorance and fear, and most people are too nervous or simply don't have the time to educate themselves on what a valid contract looks like.

Don't disagree with any of your builder story. It's a bad look. They can keep 50% of the blame for sure.
I'll agree with that. There are way too many homeowners who don't know what they are signing up for. I mean one person is trying to say it will cost them 7K for the buyout. Really. C'mon.

It would be so much easier if builders simply added the heater into the price of the house. I think 50/50 is letting the builders off too lightly. They could stop this tomorrow. Enercare and the rental situation doesn't exist without builder co-operation.
Reply With Quote
  #362  
Old 2018-12-19, 01:55 PM
HMBTUX HMBTUX is offline
Senior Member
Regular User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 254
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Orleans View Post
I'll agree with that. There are way too many homeowners who don't know what they are signing up for. I mean one person is trying to say it will cost them 7K for the buyout. Really. C'mon.

It would be so much easier if builders simply added the heater into the price of the house. I think 50/50 is letting the builders off too lightly. They could stop this tomorrow. Enercare and the rental situation doesn't exist without builder co-operation.
A nice option would be to simply offer the following choice:

a) Agree to rental tank contract
b) Agree to pay an extra "x" $ amount on the price of the home and own the tank

Let x = somewhere in the $1,700 to $2,200 range, most likely

You'd have a small group of very risk averse people, those willing to pay a big premium for the "insurance" that comes with the rental. You'd have another (hopefully) small group who are just really bad at math and stick with A. And then you'd have most people who will go with Option B. This in turn creates a lot of uncertainly for the business model of the rental company, compelling them to drastically reduce the kick back they give to the builder.

So you can see why the builder doesn't give the choice, even though most of us know which choice is best financially.

At the end of the day it's still a first world problem
Reply With Quote
  #363  
Old 2018-12-19, 02:09 PM
uki uki is offline
Member
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 70
Default

I had those options made available to me by my builder, but option (b) quoted by the builder would've costed me several hundred dollars more than the price in the rental company's buyout schedule (naturally). So I didn't go for it.
Reply With Quote
  #364  
Old 2018-12-19, 03:06 PM
suezuki650 suezuki650 is offline
Senior Member
Regular User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Half Moon Bay
Posts: 375
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMBTUX View Post
But it's not at all clear that homeowners are in any type of legally binding contract when they are force fed the rental tanks. What makes the rental companies particularly unethical is that they try and bluff people into thinking they don't have a choice, when in law they often do.
And here is where things are not clear in this particular thread. Not everyone here is a) dealing with the same builder b) dealing with the same hot water tank rental company c) has the same wording in their contract or d) had the same options presented to them before closing.

Because of this, I would caution anyone from taking advice on this from anyone here without consulting their own lawyer. Just because someone still has a tank sitting in their garage doesn't mean it's over.

In my case I had a schedule in my builder agreement that said I would rent the hot water tank (similar to purchasing a resale home with a tank). I was able to choose which tank was installed. On closing I chose to buy out the tank. It was more than having a tank installed by company ABC but typically when company ABC installs the tanks, infrastructure is already there. The tank purchase price was still low enough that I could go out and buy another tank in 10 years and still be ahead of the game.

If we want this whole process truly changed, it will take dealing with politicians to make the rules that rental tanks cannot be part of the purchase agreements and/or the buyout is negotiated at time of purchase.
__________________
Half Moon Bay South
Reply With Quote
  #365  
Old 2018-12-19, 04:25 PM
New Orleans New Orleans is offline
Senior Member
Regular User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Notting Hill South
Posts: 651
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMBTUX View Post

So you can see why the builder doesn't give the choice, even though most of us know which choice is best financially.

At the end of the day it's still a first world problem
Exactly. The builders have all the power to make the change. It sounds as if that is starting to happen. That's a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suezuki650 View Post
And here is where things are not clear in this particular thread. Not everyone here is a) dealing with the same builder b) dealing with the same hot water tank rental company c) has the same wording in their contract or d) had the same options presented to them before closing.

Because of this, I would caution anyone from taking advice on this from anyone here without consulting their own lawyer. Just because someone still has a tank sitting in their garage doesn't mean it's over.

In my case I had a schedule in my builder agreement that said I would rent the hot water tank (similar to purchasing a resale home with a tank). I was able to choose which tank was installed. On closing I chose to buy out the tank. It was more than having a tank installed by company ABC but typically when company ABC installs the tanks, infrastructure is already there. The tank purchase price was still low enough that I could go out and buy another tank in 10 years and still be ahead of the game.

If we want this whole process truly changed, it will take dealing with politicians to make the rules that rental tanks cannot be part of the purchase agreements and/or the buyout is negotiated at time of purchase.
You hit the nail on the head with this post. I paid roughly $350.00 more for an equivalent tank by simply buying out the tank on day one. I had paid a lot more than "home depot prices" on a lot of products I had upgraded in the house. I also realized that if the builder had charged me for the tank in the first place it wasn't going to be a "Home Depot" price that I paid. It was well worth the extra few dollars to not break my word and hold up my end of the bargain that I agreed to when I bought the house.

I do wish it would have been included as part of the purchase though.
Reply With Quote
  #366  
Old 2018-12-20, 05:26 AM
pabloottawa's Avatar
pabloottawa pabloottawa is offline
Senior Member
Regular User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Ottawa Ontario
Posts: 187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by suezuki650 View Post
Just because someone still has a tank sitting in their garage doesn't mean it's over.
Very true, but the longer it sits in our BASEMENT the longer the courts will see that the rental company never had any intention of establishing a mutually satisfactory agreement and since no effort is being made to retrieve their property it will further show that they intend to let the matter continue "in limbo" in hopes that they may be able to find some way to force us into a binding agreement lol... They won't because they know they can't.

Lawyers can spin their BS any way they want. A judge will see it as; No signature, no costs, no terms, no names = No contract... And Enercare knows it or they would have already taken legal action. We are now at the 2 year mark.

Oh, and this has already made the Ottawa citizen.
Reply With Quote
  #367  
Old Today, 01:23 PM
jemy1415 jemy1415 is offline
Member
Regular User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 87
Default

Hi Everyone,

We moved into our home November 2018. We didn't have a water heater rental bill on our first Enbridge bill but was slapped with 2 fees on the second. I called Enercare because we didn't get any correspondence from them about the water heater and to be fair, we have considered just buying it out (after reading what most are going through on this thread). Anyways, Enercare blames the builder for not giving us the detailed terms of the "contract", length, cost etc. Mind you, at the time when we signed the purchase agreement, the builder didn't even KNOW who the rental company would have been because the site had just opened up. Our clause states "The purchaser acknowledges that the water heater installed in the Dwelling is or will be a rental unit supplied by either Enercare or Reliance Home Comfort. The purchase agrees to execute and deliver the "rental Water Heater Program". We asked about said program but the builder didn't have any information.

Anyways, so I called and my options are to rent or buy it out. I said we would buy out depending on the price and they offered a "3 months free" if we continued the rental for literally and undetermined amount of time (the lady said until the heater was deemed no longer functioning). The buy out price is $4057! I tried to negotiate the price down and they aren't budging. They also won't allow me to remove it and return it.

A manager is suppose to call me back. Just posting this in case anyone else is considering fighting their heater.
Reply With Quote
  #368  
Old Today, 02:25 PM
alsh alsh is offline
Senior Member
Regular User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jemy1415 View Post
Hi Everyone,

We moved into our home November 2018. We didn't have a water heater rental bill on our first Enbridge bill but was slapped with 2 fees on the second. I called Enercare because we didn't get any correspondence from them about the water heater and to be fair, we have considered just buying it out (after reading what most are going through on this thread). Anyways, Enercare blames the builder for not giving us the detailed terms of the "contract", length, cost etc. Mind you, at the time when we signed the purchase agreement, the builder didn't even KNOW who the rental company would have been because the site had just opened up. Our clause states "The purchaser acknowledges that the water heater installed in the Dwelling is or will be a rental unit supplied by either Enercare or Reliance Home Comfort. The purchase agrees to execute and deliver the "rental Water Heater Program". We asked about said program but the builder didn't have any information.

Anyways, so I called and my options are to rent or buy it out. I said we would buy out depending on the price and they offered a "3 months free" if we continued the rental for literally and undetermined amount of time (the lady said until the heater was deemed no longer functioning). The buy out price is $4057! I tried to negotiate the price down and they aren't budging. They also won't allow me to remove it and return it.

A manager is suppose to call me back. Just posting this in case anyone else is considering fighting their heater.
I'm sorry to hear this, but honestly if I were you I wouldn't pay the whole $4K. Seriously the builder didn't know who the supplier at the time is BS to me, they either trying to negotiate better deal with either company (explain both name on the clause) or they're hiding something else.

Either way, don't agree to pay the asking price negotiate and make sure En-bridge removes the charges right away as well.
Good luck
Reply With Quote
  #369  
Old Today, 03:04 PM
jemy1415 jemy1415 is offline
Member
Regular User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 87
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alsh View Post
I'm sorry to hear this, but honestly if I were you I wouldn't pay the whole $4K. Seriously the builder didn't know who the supplier at the time is BS to me, they either trying to negotiate better deal with either company (explain both name on the clause) or they're hiding something else.

Either way, don't agree to pay the asking price negotiate and make sure En-bridge removes the charges right away as well.
Good luck
Thank you. I definitely don't want to pay that much. The same unit goes for $1700 and I know there are installation costs but 4k is excessive!

Do I just call Enbridge to remove their charges? Wouldn't I need some kind of proof for them to do that?
Reply With Quote
  #370  
Old Today, 04:37 PM
alsh alsh is offline
Senior Member
Regular User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jemy1415 View Post
Thank you. I definitely don't want to pay that much. The same unit goes for $1700 and I know there are installation costs but 4k is excessive!

Do I just call Enbridge to remove their charges? Wouldn't I need some kind of proof for them to do that?

Well, Enbridge did't need any kind of proof to charge you, so yes call them and they ask them to dispute /remove the charges from you're account.

And once you reach a settlement with the company they can add that amount to the buyout price

Last edited by alsh; Today at 04:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Letter fromCricket Home Comfort litigation counsel sign water heater rental agreement Canin Ottawa 37 2018-03-04 08:55 PM
Builder did not ask me to sign water heater rental. Can I ditch it and buy instead? multiculti Ottawa 144 2017-04-05 07:36 PM
Direct Energy / EnerCare Hot Water Heater Rental littlestone Ottawa 16 2015-07-23 09:47 PM
Rental water heater dlhunter Markham / Thornhill / Vaughan 5 2008-11-17 02:14 PM
TP water heater rental themccartneys Milton 2 2005-12-13 12:37 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:02 PM.



Copyright © PHAND Corporation
This document may not be used elsewhere without the expressed written consent of PHAND Corporation.
*** There is no association between this website and any builder. ***

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.