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  #431  
Old 2019-12-05, 10:16 AM
JCC JCC is offline
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Originally Posted by Jebus05 View Post
Thats what I was thinking, it was going to be a tankless rental regardless, and it's a new build so the cost of installation is not really a factor, I just don't want to deal with Enercare or cricket etc.

What does a typical install cost to remove a rental system and install the new system? Assuming both are tankless.
It's really not a lot of work. If the system is already wired, it's an unplug, detach (it's secured somewhere), detach plumbing, then reverse the steps with the new one. That's my understanding, but it's better to have a professional do it - a plumber would probably charge you for an hour's labour - $250.
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  #432  
Old 2019-12-05, 10:51 AM
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pabloottawa pabloottawa is offline
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What if we've already taken possession, and used the HWH, but have not accepted anything from the company... what can we do then?
As long as you can show in court that you removed and replaced the water heater as soon as you possibly could under the circumstances no judge can view you as someone trying to scam the company that’s trying to scam you.

Also, you still do not have any type of agreement with the rental company unless you have made any type of payment to them, verbally consented to one in a phone conversation (BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU SAY WHEN YOU TALK TO THE AGENTS), or filled out the forms they sent you. In this case I would argue that as far as the law is concerned (within both realms of contract law and common law), there is still no agreement between you and any rental company. The factors that make up an agreement or contract were missing at the time you signed for the house and took possession and were not made clear to you until after the fact so you are being forced to enter into an agreement you are not freely willing to enter into.

If it went to court, the judge would probably rule that you pay the rental fee for the one or two months you used the water heater and that would be the end of it. 80 - 100 bucks is way cheaper than the rip off that is their rental fees, penalties and buyout cost.

****Bottom line here is that these companies know they are scamming people and those that resist they write off as a loss and move on. They’ll never take it to court because they know it will get thrown out or they’ll have to pay a hefty fine and that sets a precedent. There’s so much damming evidence out there against this practice that they know they won’t be able to do this for much longer and awareness is growing. This thread is testimony to that.

Document everything, record every conversation and keep a detailed and chronological record of the events.

Last edited by pabloottawa; 2019-12-05 at 11:05 AM.
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  #433  
Old 2019-12-05, 11:16 AM
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pabloottawa pabloottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by Jebus05 View Post
Thats what I was thinking, it was going to be a tankless rental regardless, and it's a new build so the cost of installation is not really a factor, I just don't want to deal with Enercare or cricket etc.

What does a typical install cost to remove a rental system and install the new system? Assuming both are tankless.
We paid 2700 taxes in (parts and labour) to remove Enercare's POS tankless heater and install one through our LOCAL private, small business retailer. We decided to support our local economy vs enabling fraudulent and anti-competitive practices.
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  #434  
Old 2019-12-11, 11:40 PM
TKG26 TKG26 is offline
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what made the tankless a POS?
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  #435  
Old 2019-12-11, 11:44 PM
TKG26 TKG26 is offline
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I have been negotiating with my builder and he is allowing me to strip the hot water rental from the contract, on the condition that I purchase directly from the builder and that I cannot have someone install one on my behalf.

He is asking for 3400 with installation and taxes included.
Is it worth just paying the price to get out of the contract?

I know with the government rebates right now the tankless hot water heaters are around 1500-2000.
Do it. Now is the time to do it, this will ensure your gas line is sized properly to supply a tankless as well as the other appliances, it will also ensure it gets inspectect before closing.. Ensure code compliance. And like u said its rolled into the morgage.
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  #436  
Old 2020-06-29, 03:27 PM
Tbaga Tbaga is offline
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Originally Posted by Sarah2012 View Post
Our take on that clause was that we agreed to take on the lease payments, not any kind of lease term. Had we chosen to remove their unit (instead of buying it out, which is what we did), we would have sited that in our cancellation notice.


IMO, every single person moving into a new build and questioning their legal obligations surrounding the tank/tankless rental needs to speak with their lawyer! Everybody on this forum has different clauses in their sales agreements, and many of us have very different opinions on how to handle this situation. The OP is ready for battle! And that's cool for him in his situation. But some of the sales agreement clauses I've run across are iron-clad and you're just f'ed if you want out of them. Period. So know what you're getting into before you pick a fight.
Would anyone here think the following water heater agreement, as stated in my Agreement of Purchase and Sale, "iron-clad" and, therefore I should not even think of fighting it back. Here is the agreement, verbatim:

"The Purchaser acknowledges and agrees that:

1. The Dwelling will be equipped with a water heater (the "Equipment") supplied and installed by another party as the Vendor shall determine the ("Supplier");

2. The Equipment will be rented from the Supplier and the Purchaser be required to enter into a rental agreement the ("Service Agreement") which will require monthly payments to be made by the Purchaser;

3. The Purchaser will enter into a Service Agreement for the rental of the Equipment with the Supplier on the Supplier's standard form of rental agreement in effect on the date of Closing. Notwithstanding the foregoing, in the absence of being required to enter into such Service Agreement, the Purchaser shall nonetheless assume and pay all monthly payments required to be paid to the Supplier for the equipment;

4. At closing, the Purchaser shall commence making monthly payments ordinarily charged by the Supplier for the length of the term in accordance with the Service Agreement; and

5. If requested by the Vendor or its soliciters, the Purchaser agrees to sign the Service Agreement and, at the same time, if requested by the Vendor or the Vendor's soliciters, will deliver to the Vendor or its soliciters such executed Service Agreement, together with any pre-authorized payment forms, personal identification and void cheques as the Supplier may require for the monthly payments to be made pursuant to the Service Agreement."
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  #437  
Old 2020-06-29, 04:22 PM
HMBTUX HMBTUX is offline
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Originally Posted by JCC View Post
It's really not a lot of work. If the system is already wired, it's an unplug, detach (it's secured somewhere), detach plumbing, then reverse the steps with the new one. That's my understanding, but it's better to have a professional do it - a plumber would probably charge you for an hour's labour - $250.
Plumber or heart surgeon?

That's quite the hourly wage!

Last edited by HMBTUX; 2020-06-29 at 10:07 PM.
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  #438  
Old 2020-06-29, 07:12 PM
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GregS GregS is offline
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Plumber of heart surgeon?

That's quite the hourly wage!
It's not worth driving to someones house with a truck full of parts, years worth of experience, insurance and other business expenses for an hours worth of work. It's a quick way to go out of business because you will not be covering what it costs to do the job.
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  #439  
Old 2020-06-29, 10:31 PM
HMBTUX HMBTUX is offline
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Originally Posted by GregS View Post
It's not worth driving to someones house with a truck full of parts, years worth of experience, insurance and other business expenses for an hours worth of work. It's a quick way to go out of business because you will not be covering what it costs to do the job.
I'm mostly joking, I get it.

But to be fair, I have years worth of experience, and a vehicle I bought to get to and from work, etc etc..... and would be laughed out of the room if I tried to charge my employer for these expenses.

In any event, $250 is on the very high end of the spectrum is all.
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  #440  
Old 2020-07-01, 03:07 PM
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pabloottawa pabloottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by Tbaga View Post
Would anyone here think the following water heater agreement, as stated in my Agreement of Purchase and Sale, "iron-clad" and, therefore I should not even think of fighting it back. Here is the agreement, verbatim:

"The Purchaser acknowledges and agrees that:

1. The Dwelling will be equipped with a water heater (the "Equipment") supplied and installed by another party as the Vendor shall determine the ("Supplier");

2. The Equipment will be rented from the Supplier and the Purchaser be required to enter into a rental agreement the ("Service Agreement") which will require monthly payments to be made by the Purchaser;

3. The Purchaser will enter into a Service Agreement for the rental of the Equipment with the Supplier on the Supplier's standard form of rental agreement in effect on the date of Closing. Notwithstanding the foregoing, in the absence of being required to enter into such Service Agreement, the Purchaser shall nonetheless assume and pay all monthly payments required to be paid to the Supplier for the equipment;

4. At closing, the Purchaser shall commence making monthly payments ordinarily charged by the Supplier for the length of the term in accordance with the Service Agreement; and

5. If requested by the Vendor or its soliciters, the Purchaser agrees to sign the Service Agreement and, at the same time, if requested by the Vendor or the Vendor's soliciters, will deliver to the Vendor or its soliciters such executed Service Agreement, together with any pre-authorized payment forms, personal identification and void cheques as the Supplier may require for the monthly payments to be made pursuant to the Service Agreement."

PM sent.... You have rights.
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